Memo to the County Board – Keep off the Grass

[Lone Shark]

If I start by talking about the current property market, will you promise to stay tuned till I get to the relevant stuff? You will? Ah that’s very decent of you ….

There are a lot of widely disparate opinions out there right now about what’s happening to our housing market in this country - whether we’re on the brink of a crash or merely a “soft landing”; whether property is hugely over-valued or a fair reflection of supply and demand in an expanding society, and other issues. What is beyond dispute in all this is that our market is very peculiar in that a lot of odd psychological factors are involved. The particularly Irish need to own your own home at all costs and to always have a back yard and a clothesline along with it spring to mind. One way this manifests itself in a disproportionate amount of rural bungalows, as opposed to well maintained apartments in planned communities. But rather than risk ostracising for being an An Taisce sympathiser, we’ll cut that line of thought right there.

Now nobody could expect the Offaly county board to have property market expertise, but all the same one wonders if a cursory glance at our current situation with this in mind might be in order. As things stand we have a fantastic new stand in O’Connor Park, arguably the best of its kind in Ireland and the wheels are in motion to begin work on concrete terracing to allow the ground to take crowds of up to 30,000 people. This is the stage where this writer would be in favour of stepping back and abandoning the rest of the project and instead moving forward with what we have, which is more than adequate.

We all know that the grass banks in Tullamore and Birr are problematic in that health and safety regulations enforce a very low capacity on match days and as such render our grounds unusable for many big fixtures. However the question has to be asked – is this really a problem? Are we thinking of expanding because we genuinely believe there is a need for a 30,000 seater stadium in Offaly, or are we acting like so many property buyers and doing it to keep up and not miss out when everyone else is “on the ladder”?

Considerable expense will be involved in putting the concrete terracing in place, but we should consider how many games will it really be necessary for. Even if we set the current O’Connor Park capacity at 10,000, which is very low when one factors in that the stand alone takes over 7,000, there are very few games that would require capacity in excess of this. Certainly in the Leinster championship only a football game with Dublin would cause problems, while Offaly have not yet played a single qualifier game in either code where O’Connor Park as it stands would have been unable to look after the crowd.

Tullamore may miss out on hosting some games as a neutral venue, but with Portlaoise a mere 30 miles down the road, surely it makes more sense to let them take the games where 15,000 plus is expected, while we can have the crowds of 10,000 or so that will no doubt appreciate the superior main stand. On that note, the current championship structures are up in the air right now. If Dessie Farrell and his GPA cronies get his way the GAA will soon consist of nothing but paid intercounty footballers hogging the whole summer, but a change of focus back to club players appears to be the general mood and a serious scaling back of the intercounty calendar is highly plausible in the next few years in this environment. As such, is it wise to undertake such a large building project? One imagines that if we were to consult the county boards in Wexford or Cavan they might also suggest a little restraint.

Finally, let’s not forget the offers that have been made for the county grounds in Ennis and Mullingar. Obviously we would all prefer O’Connor Park to remain where it is, but the day may come when the funds offered may be either necessary or just too large to refuse. This should not be a deciding factor, but it should be a consideration.

But aside from the huge expense that would be borne by Offaly’s hitherto very generous sponsors, nobody is remarking on what will be lost if the beloved grass hill is removed. Firstly, large numbers of Offaly supporters love the hill. We’ve had very happy times there and nostalgia aside, it’s a lot more pleasant than standing on bare windswept concrete. A summer’s evening laying out on the hill watching a hard fought club game is an evening that’s hard to beat for sheer enjoyment.

But more importantly, the grass hill makes games so much easier to bring kids to, and in an environment where the children have so many different sports competing for the attention, this is one trump card that should not be returned to the deck. The grass hill allows parents to bring their kids at a young age and let them run around without fear of serious cuts and bruises. Many even roll around, taking advantage of the slope as only kids can and have a great time while doing it. Offaly club games are unique in that huge amounts of kids come to games and spill onto the pitch at half time, playing around with the hurls and footballs they’ve brought along. It’s only in recent years that this writer has noticed that this doesn’t happen in any other county – this is a shame, and it would be a terrible pity if it stopped happening in Offaly too.

O’Connor Park right now offers something to the family that wants a day out, to the long time supporter that remembers days gone by, and to the follower who wants to watch in comfort, protected from the elements. Other than catering for big crowds that may or may not happen once in a blue moon, it’s hard to see what any further development will add to this, and it could very easily cost us a lot.

To the county board and it’s benefactors – you’ve given us a great stand that will no doubt be a great source of pride to all of us – don’t go taking away the grass bank that complements it so well. Please……

[The Biff]

Not wanting it to seem like no-one is reading LS's significant proclamations, I want to register my agreement here.

Unfortunately, it is a long time since I had the chance to enjoy any Summery Days lounging on "The Hill" at any club games. But on the fundamental point of whether it is really worthwhile upgrading O'Connor park further, I too would have serious doubts. Croke Park is set to host most if not all Leinster Championship games for the foreseeable future, as double-headers or whatever.

Portlaoise already has the capacity for mid-sized crowds, and with the Leinster GAA HQ being already based there, its understandable that it may carry some casting votes. If "Dunnes Stores Car-Park" in Mullingar is sold for redevelopment, then those tenants can be expected to construct a brand-new stadium somewhere which will also draw comparisons.

So just who would a concrete-terraced O'Connor Park be trying to attract, and what are the real chances of securing those fixtures, and at what cost? I reckon the lads in Cavan must be well sick that their investment is not being utilised fully. We should not make the same mistake.

[Tom]

I have to disagree lads. I love the hill, and would prefer it to stay the way it is, but to cover the investment in the stand, a further investment must be put in to terrace the hill. OK, so O'Moore park already has the facilities, but with the terrace there, they definitely have the better chance of getting some of the mid size crowds for qualifiers and the like. While our stand may be more impressive, the hill won't appeal to outsiders on a wet day, so O'Moore will get the nod for most games i'd say. So to ensure Offaly County Boards gets it's fair slice of the pie, i'd urge them to terrace the hill.

[Bord na Mona man]

I'd put astroturf the Hill, so it doesn't get muddy in the rain.

In the late 90s Tullamore was earmarked as being the second most important ground in Leinster outside of Croke Park. Laois went ahead and built the stand in Portlaoise off their own bat, but there is no obligation for them to be given fixtures. I'd press ahead and ensure the development is finished and make sure Tullamore gets its fair wedge of qualifier games. There's no reason why it shouldn't expect to host last 16 and quarter final matches. Portlaoise should get the neutral games only if it clearly suits better than Tullamore.

If Wexford expected neutral games to be played in Wexford Park, then they were extremely foolish. Cavan have more reason to feel aggrieved.

I'd be cautious about selling the ground, unless the deal was a real bonanza.
You'd really want to be sure that everyone who attends matches in O'Connor Park travels by car, before deciding that they should have to drive to an out of town venue.

[Lone Shark]

OK, so O'Moore park already has the facilities, but with the terrace there, they definitely have the better chance of getting some of the mid size crowds for qualifiers and the like.

My question would be how many of these games are there really? Up to 10,000 people if anything O'Connor Park holds the advantage because it's closer to the centre of town and the stand is superior. How many games will there be in the qualifiers with crowds in excess of this? Let's not forget that last year home advantage was in play for every single qualifier game also, and as we mentioned, unless we end up playing Dublin footballers at home 10,000 would do.

Secondly I would be very sceptical that the cost benefit analysis would stack up. Say we get 2 extra games a year (very optimistic) yielding €60,000** in rent. Based on likely interest ratesgoing forward, this would only pay the interest on a €1.2 million mortgage - could this project honestly be completed for €1.2m? I'd be very surprised if we got it done for double that, even allowing for getting a few bob from the government, which is far from a given in the current environment.

And all this is before we factor in intangibles like the potential alienating of our hardcore of sponsors who are tired of forking out for every development, or the point Biff made about how the Leinster council is based in portlaoise and that may mean that we mightn't get our fair share of the pie even if we had a 30,000 capacity stadium. I actually just took a quick run through the calendar for this year, and I'm pretty sure the only game we missed out on was the first round match against Westmeath, which possibly would have been moved anyway. No other game would have been up for grabs. So allowing two games seems generous to be honest.





** Rent of 60,000 is obtained by following calculations:

Total crowd between two games = 30,000
Average admission including concessions, €15 per head, total revenue €450,000.
GAA match "costs" average at 25%, including rent of stadium.
Total costs = €112,500.
Pure guesswork after this, but I would estimate that almost half this would be eaten up by ticket issuing and distribution, security, Gardaí presence, stewarding and assorted miscellany. Allow €60,000 for final bottom line profit to Offaly CB.

[Lone Shark]

I'd put astroturf the Hill, so it doesn't get muddy in the rain.

To be fair the ground takes the rain quite well - I don't think this is necessary really. If you wanted to provide covered terracing at one end perhaps, this way the character of the main Hill could be maintained.

In the late 90s Tullamore was earmarked as being the second most important ground in Leinster outside of Croke Park.

I'd see no reason why I'd expect the Leinster council or Central council to hold to such a promise. The Hyde was designated as the main ground in Connacht, and it hasn't got any games since then that you wouldn't expect. I'd imagine that was a political sop at the time.

I'd press ahead and ensure the development is finished and make sure Tullamore gets its fair wedge of qualifier games. There's no reason why it shouldn't expect to host last 16 and quarter final matches. Portlaoise should get the neutral games only if it clearly suits better than Tullamore.

The reason it wouldn't get them is that there are no neutral games any more - the football qualifiers are home advantage the whole way up to the quarter finals, and I really can't imagine the football quarter finals being held outside of HQ. Maybe in Thurles or Limerick at a push, if western/southern teams are involved. Tullamore wouldn't be central for any hurling quarter final except possibly Galway vs Dublin and at a real stretch Tipp vs Galway. Every other potential fixture would have a more suitable alternative.

If Wexford expected neutral games to be played in Wexford Park, then they were extremely foolish. Cavan have more reason to feel aggrieved.

But again, it's not that Cavan are missing out to other counties - the games just don't exist. I certainyl agree that I've no idea what Wexford were thinking - though arguably they could be better placed for more hurling matches than we are. (KK vs Wat, Cork vs Dub, Wat vs Dub, KK vs Tipp would all be possibles)

I'd be cautious about selling the ground, unless the deal was a real bonanza.
You'd really want to be sure that everyone who attends matches in O'Connor Park travels by car, before deciding that they should have to drive to an out of town venue.

Just for the record, I would not be in favour of selling the ground. It's a fine surface, well located and now with a fantastic stand. However when you see the crazy money being offered for Cusack park in Ennis, it would be naive to rule it out in the medium to long term future.

[Bord na Mona man]

I think Cavan would point out that Clones gets far more games than Breffni Park does.
Most of the Ulster football championship matches seem to be played in Clones, as well as nearly every other match of any significance in the general area.

There are a lot of other games that are available to Tullamore, apart from just qualifiers.
National League knockout matches, minor and U21 games. Leinster championship replays where Croke Park is unavailable.

The spin offs from matches are more than just gate receipts. Local business does well from a big crowd. These are the people who make it possible for the ground in Tullamore to be built.
If you were the owner of a pub, restaurant or hotel in Tullamore, you wouldn't be thrilled to hear the county board diverting all comers to Portlaoise.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Couldn't stay away! Superb article Shark. very thought provoking. In general I would broadly agree with you. Here's some observations on the matter

I’m not a solicitor but it appears that selling the ground for development is not an option due to the long lease arrangement between the County Board and the Tullamore club. There is a 35 year lease in place and the County board have an option to renew at the end of the lease term. Therefore O’Connor Park is not the County Board’s to sell and the Tullamore club would be precluded from selling up due to the lease arrangement and the CB's option to renew.

In 2006 round 3 and 4 qualifier teams tossed for home venue. This is likely to continue. This means Tullamore (or anywhere else for that matter) will not host qualifier matches as a neutral venue. The Leinster council appear intent on using Croke Park as much as possible for provincial football games. Which leaves hurling. Under the round robin qualifier system Offaly will host one or two qualifiers. Look at the redeveloped Wexford Park. Open 5 years and the only match of note it’s held is the 2004 qualifier against Offaly.
With Kilkenny and Wexford likely to be seeded for the foreseeable future, how about entering a home/away arrangement with each of those two for hurling semi-finals?

Apart from the grassy hill, the other issue reducing capacity is entry/exit. There are only three exit gates from the entire hill area. I had thought that incorporating dressing rooms under the stand would facilitate demolishing the existing dressing room building to enable additional exit gates and turnstiles to be constructed in that corner. Evidently, this does not seem to be the plan.

While on this area, a minor alteration was made to the hill in Birr at the Town-end about three years ago which makes exiting the hill dangerous as it is extremely steep leaving from all areas at that point in the corner.

Another issue with Tullamore is that of parking. It’s non existent! When Galway were developing Pearse Stadium and planned for a thirty six thousand capacity stadium they were told to provide nine thousand parking spaces. Hence local schools and other open areas were incorporated into a matchday traffic plan. Where do ye park in Tullamore?

Incidentally whats the biggest crowd ye remember in Tullamore? Laois v Dublin in 1980 and 1981 perhaps?

The biggest crowd I remember in Birr was for an All-Ireland under 21 final in 1988 between Kilkenny and Cork. Both hills were full down to the far end and there was even a crowd behind the far goal. Probably fifteen thousand there. The biggest crowd ever at a march in Birr is reputed to be the 1947 All-Ireland hurling semi-final between Kilkenny and Galway. Galway were set for a famous (and rare) semi final win when someone blew a whistle in the crowd and the pitch was invaded. When order was eventually restored the final minutes were played out and Lory Meagher scored the winner for the Cats. Many Galway folk stopped in Banagher as they cycled home to celebrate the win only to be informed of the events that followed their departure!

[Lone Shark]

I think Cavan would point out that Clones gets far more games than Breffni Park does.
Most of the Ulster football championship matches seem to be played in Clones, as well as nearly every other match of any significance in the general area.

A large part of that is that Clones is the largest capacity, and with the huge crowds that both Armagh and Tyrone currently bring to games, it forces the Ulster council's hand somewhat. They also draw for home/away in Ulster, so again, neutral venue games are scarce.

On a secondary note, perhaps this also illustrates that it's dangerous assuming that if you build you'll get a fair crack of the the whip regardless?

There are a lot of other games that are available to Tullamore, apart from just qualifiers.
National League knockout matches, minor and U21 games. Leinster championship replays where Croke Park is unavailable.

Again, very few of these games would be unable to be taken by Tullamore even as things stand. Certainly minor or under 21 games short of the final, barring any unusual circumstances, would be well within capacity, while knockout league games will in all likelihood be phased out to give extra weeks to clubs in the coming years.

I'm not saying there aren't a few games to go for - I still say they're very few and far between. What games in 2006 do you think would have come to Tullamore if we had a 30,000 stadium to take them?

The spin offs from matches are more than just gate receipts. Local business does well from a big crowd. These are the people who make it possible for the ground in Tullamore to be built.
If you were the owner of a pub, restaurant or hotel in Tullamore, you wouldn't be thrilled to hear the county board diverting all comers to Portlaoise.

Of course, but these are the very people that would suggest a serious cost benefit analysis, and I don't think it adds up, even for them. For example, if you owned the Bridge house, how much, for argument's sake, is an All Ireland hurling quarter final between Tipp and Galway worth? (Remember that our centrality is a drawback to them, as very few will stay the night being so close to home) I'd be amazed if the Bridge house took ten grand clear profit from the day, and with no guarantee of one such day per year, would you really stump up a six figure sum to make it happen, having paid heavily already? Likewise the pubs would need to know that games would definitely come that wouldn't otherwise before stumping up ten grand each too.

Perhaps I'm wrong in this, but I still believe that Tullamore will get a lot of games where between 5,000 and 12,000 punters are expected due to the location, stand, high quality playing surface etc. I just don't believe that crowds above that number are of a sufficient frequency to justify spending millions to compete for them.

[Lone Shark]

Couldn't stay away!

Religion - the opium of the masses.

GAA discussion - the opium of Lusmagh.


As regards your other points, unsurprisingly well made and relevant, some I've touched on before, some would definitely need to be added into the mix.

Home/Away arrangements - much needed. I've had a topic here before advocating these, and again with the exception of Dublin, I think Tullamore would be good enough to host any other Leinster games, barring a serious upturn in our fortunes in the hurling. (Leinster semis with Meath/Kildare/Laois might put pressure on it, but in truth these would be in Croker anyway.)

Parking - This is fast becoming a serious issue for Tullamore anyway, not to mention traffic getting in and out after the game. Possibly park and ride out on the Kilbeggan road or something?

You would assume exit and entry from the ground itself would be factored into any redesign plans. Certainly it is becoming a problem though. perhaps it's time to start thinking about entry at the other end as well?

[The Rover]

Have to agree that the LS article is thought provoking and well written. All the other contributions have added depth and breath to the topic.

The Hill in Tullamore is as integral a part of the ground as Hill 16 in Croke park. When Croke Prak was redeveloped the overriding characteristic was left in tact. The same needs to apply for Tullamore. In days of wall to wall concreted stadiums – witness Portlaoise or Sempel Stadium – Tullamore is like an oasis in a concrete jungle. Once you pass the grey almost forbidding boundary wall the ground opens up like a lush meadow. Once on the Hill you can savour a unique atmosphere. It‘s boundless, it‘s bohemian, it‘s laissez faire - it‘s Ofaly. You can stand where you want, move where you want and at the same time meet half your neighbours while you watch the game.

If the ground has a capacity of 10 to 15,000 that‘s all it needs. If a bigger crowd is expected then it just has to be all ticket. But as has already been pointed out this won‘t happen too often. POTH asked what is the largest crowd anybody can remember in Tullamore. I remember 3,000 for a Kildare v Offaly Championship replay on a fine summer Saturday evening in the late eighties so a capacity in the mid teens should be enough to accommodate almost all games.

The theoritical question, to sell or not sell is difficult. My preference would also be not to sell but by implication the prerequisite here is that capacity is limited to max. 15,000. Parking prohibits any greater capacity as has already been pointed out. If a huge price were offered then maybe a sale and development of a larger say 30,000 capacity ground out of town would be an option. However given the proximity of a large number of houses to the ground, I‘m not even sure residential development is a feasible option.

Which brings me back briefly to the opening comment on the thread. Why doesn‘t the Irish building industry opt for more high density properly serviced appartments as opposed to low density sprawl. I spent about half my life in a house with garden while growing up and most of the rest since then in appartments. A well serviced appartment with a good balcony is as good as a house anyday. Maybe if you have children under 18 then a garden is an advantage so that they can play foootball. But then again with 24 hour TV, computers and X Boxes waht kids are playing football in their spare time today? Maybe that‘s what‘s wrong with Offaly football!

[Bord na Mona man]

Clones gets a lot of games where the capacity is never tested.
A quick check of the stats reveals that for the last 3 years 50% of Ulster championship matches have been played there. On average 6 out of 12. Which is still a high figure considering that all Ulster finals and their replays have been switched to Croke Park.

The point still stands that Cavan can feel aggrieved that they are lucky to get one of these games a year and rarely get any other fixtures that they are the half way point for.

While I think the grassy hill has the charm as outlined above, it will unfortunately have to go as the capacity of Tullamore is still too small. While the new stand is welcome and long overdue, we still have a capacity problem in Tullamore which will necessitate concrete terracing being added.

The issue with Tullamore was that the ground was below standard. Millions were going to have to spent regardless, in order to get it up to basic standards, never mind a prime venue.
Tullamore had a crowd of 15,000 for the game against Leix in 2003. The year after the health and safety people slashed the capacity so for the short to medium term future, Tullamore was never going to hold such a fixture again.

What we should examine are what is the cost difference between a 15,000 capacity ground and a 25-30,000 one? Lets be clear that the new stand and other facilities were going to have to be built regardless. Also, no matter what solution you implement for terracing, it is going to cost to excavate the Hill and carry out all the preparation work for the new terrace. The is going to be a sizeable base cost regardless of whether you're building the small "send them to Portlaoise" option or the going the whole hog. I'm sure someone with a construction background could give us a rough estimate. The economies of scale etc.

I think it would short sighted to spend more millions finishing the development and for the sake of not spending 15-20% (for argument's sake) extra, leaving us with a ground that still can't host fixtures outside of Offaly ones.

[Bord na Mona man]

Incidentally whats the biggest crowd ye remember in Tullamore? Laois v Dublin in 1980 and 1981 perhaps?

The biggest Tullamore attendance I remember was 25,000 in 1985 when Offaly played Dublin in the Leinster football championship.

[Lone Shark]

I think we're in broad agreement about Cavan - the ground hasn't got the use it deserves, but all this proves is that even if you build it you still mightn't get games. Just because we upgrade O'Connor Park doesn't mean that four out of five neutral games wouldn't go to Portlaoise.

The point made there is very fair though - how much extra has to be done with O'Connor Park even if we don't want to go over 10,000 capacity? I was working off the basis that barring a few developments to the dressing rooms etc it was done - though some work on what passes for "toilets" down the far end of the hill might not go amiss.

Basically I don't see why it has to be changed at all - your point seems to suggest that some work is going to have to be done regardless:

Also, no matter what solution you implement for terracing, it is going to cost to excavate the Hill and carry out all the preparation work for the new terrace.


I think it would short sighted to spend more millions finishing the development and for the sake of not spending 15-20% (for argument's sake) extra, leaving us with a ground that still can't host fixtures outside of Offaly ones.

Perhaps that's not what you meant, but I don't see why we have to do anything else with it. Obviously my argument changes completely if we're committed to spending €2m extra (for argument's sake) and another €1m on top would be the difference between 12,000 and 30,000 capacity.



I stand by the point about how much more family friendly the grass is though. For me this is a lot to give up.

[Bogman]

From various comments by County Board Officials and Journalists I've formed the impression that these grounds have to be inspected now for Health & Safety and the Hill does seem to be considered Unsafe by the people who do the inspections. The number of people allowed on the Hill is severely limited and this restricts the official capacity of the ground virtually to the Stand capacity.

So some form of safety barriers would have to be put onto the Hill at intervals to break up the crowd and I imagine that you are then talking about putting in concrete bases for these barriers. So then it's only a short step to Terracing.