Offaly Senior Hurling Club Championship 2011

[GreatDayForTheParish]

OverTheBlackSpot put it well in his opening paragraph - for a variety of reasons yesterday had a depressing feel about it. No atmosphere, although each game being over at half time certainly didn't help. This along with the poor standard of hurling made for an extremely disappointing and underwhelming occasion.

Not much to say on the games. Birr and Coolderry were way ahead of their respective opponents and could afford to operate in 1st gear for the second halves. Best for Birr was their defence with Watkins being outstanding - the man is never hooked. Their forwards are cause for concern though and struggle to score points - both from open play and the placed ball. By comparison Coolderry's well documented strength lies in attack with Murray in particular on fine form yesterday. Best defence versus best offence - it should make for a good final between these fiercest of rivals. Few can doubt that they have been the two top teams for a while now (since 2004), let the latest chapter unfold.

As for the defeated? At least for Banagher, utterly hopeless though they were, the very making of a semi-final was reasonable progress in itself. Whether they are capable of actually improving on this is debatable but we'll park that for another day. K/K however, have no such luxury. Another desperately disappointing big day defeat, they were truly terrible. The reputations of some of their underage 'stars', who should by now be entering their prime, has to undergo serious re-evaluation. Although, when looking at their representation on the county team, few should hardly be surprised. A team full of good players but no great players - they lack that one player with undisputed inter county class. Until that changes, for them, nothing will.

[Lone Shark]

I think that unless you were a supporter of either Birr or Coolderry, it would be hard to come away from O'Connor Park feeling positive. There's no question but that the two best and most deserving teams are in the county final and there is a lot to be said for that, but the overwhelming impression I was left with is that Birr and Coolderry aren't the best teams in the county because they are so good, but because they manage their limitations better and don't have as obvious weak links.

To take the Birr and Rynaghs game first, and obviously I'd concur with most of the posters above. Barry Harding was outstanding, Michael Verney not far behind him, and you'd also have to say that Neil Rogers, Paul Cleary, Sean Ryan, Rory Hanniffy and Brian Mullins showed on more than a few occasions that they are extremely talented players too. That said, there were a few Birr players there who didn't impress me hugely, particularly up front, where there were several players that struggled to get on the ball and struggled to hold it when they did. To only score 2-9 on a day when the Rynaghs backs must have felt like they were hurling into a handball alley is not good going, regardless of the conditions. To only score two points in the second half is particularly poor form.

St Rynaghs made some progress to get back to a county semi final certainly, but it's hard to know how much of that was down to them and how much of it was down to Tullamore and Kinnitty going conspicuously backwards. Most of their backs did reasonably well - Dermot Shortt and Simon Lyons were the pick of the bunch for me, but overall their backline was decent. They did lose midfield, and a lot of that is down to their own management. Their trump card against Shinrone was the Kelly/Sullivan partnership. Why break it up? Back your own men to step up, and change it if it's not working. Don't give Rory Hanniffy and Paul Molloy time to settle into the game before moving Kelly back there. Admittedly Hanniffy was hurling well, Sullivan was short of his best and Molloy was getting on a lot of ball, even if he gave away a good bit, so Birr could have won that sector anyway - but why change the best part of your team.

Up front the cupboard was really bare. Ger Scales started well but Michael Verney was much too good for him when he moved across, I felt sorry for Niall Wynne with the amount of high ball that went in on top of him, and every other player in that sector was cleaned from start to finish. I see Diarmuid Horan was named on the programme - he obviously wasn't togged or they would have sent him in surely. A lot will have to change in that sextet next year for Rynaghs to improve because as things stand you'd be hard pressed to name another senior forward line in the county as weak. Birr just cut out the fouls, and without Gary Kelly scoring ten frees, Rynaghs were starved.

Coolderry hurled well, but they got the run of the ball at a crucial time - the six point swing in the first half when K/K had their goal chance (Geraghty I think, can't remember) and it got saved, ball down the field and Damien Murray got his goal. A potentially level match was suddenly a six point deficit, and then the unfortunate concession of Martin Corcoran's goal then killed the game entirely. Some of the K/K lads kept hurling in the second half, but several of them gave up the ghost too. As was pointed out elsewhere, there are a lot of county players on that team who didn't look like county players yesterday.

I have to ask the question - if Pad Joe hasn't done anything for the fragile mentality of this team, what does he really bring to the table? He managed a freakishly talented group of players to incredible success with Birr, but that's a completely different task requiring a different skillset to getting a Kilcormac/Killoughey team, endowed with a lot more natural physical gifts than natural hurling gifts, over the line in Offaly. Kilcormac have now got to nine out of the last ten semi-finals, losing six of those and losing the three finals that they did reach. Not unlike Shamrocks footballers, there comes a time when you have to start looking beyond ability and tactics as the issue.


On the corresponding football thread, somebody posted that the county badly needs a good championship final. I actually think the hurling championship needs it more. Five of the six knockout games played so far have been handy wins for one team or the other, and the entire group two round robin campaign was a write off as well. At least in the football semis you could point to a very strong performance from Clara that would have tested any team. Birr and Coolderry possibly had another gear to go to yesterday, but we'll never know because they weren't asked to find it.

[backofthenet]

I think that unless you were a supporter of either Birr or Coolderry, it would be hard to come away from O'Connor Park feeling positive. There's no question but that the two best and most deserving teams are in the county final and there is a lot to be said for that, but the overwhelming impression I was left with is that Birr and Coolderry aren't the best teams in the county because they are so good, but because they manage their limitations better and don't have as obvious weak links.

To take the Birr and Rynaghs game first, and obviously I'd concur with most of the posters above. Barry Harding was outstanding, Michael Verney not far behind him, and you'd also have to say that Neil Rogers, Paul Cleary, Sean Ryan, Rory Hanniffy and Brian Mullins showed on more than a few occasions that they are extremely talented players too. That said, there were a few Birr players there who didn't impress me hugely, particularly up front, where there were several players that struggled to get on the ball and struggled to hold it when they did. To only score 2-9 on a day when the Rynaghs backs must have felt like they were hurling into a handball alley is not good going, regardless of the conditions. To only score two points in the second half is particularly poor form.

St Rynaghs made some progress to get back to a county semi final certainly, but it's hard to know how much of that was down to them and how much of it was down to Tullamore and Kinnitty going conspicuously backwards. Most of their backs did reasonably well - Dermot Shortt and Simon Lyons were the pick of the bunch for me, but overall their backline was decent. They did lose midfield, and a lot of that is down to their own management. Their trump card against Shinrone was the Kelly/Sullivan partnership. Why break it up? Back your own men to step up, and change it if it's not working. Don't give Rory Hanniffy and Paul Molloy time to settle into the game before moving Kelly back there. Admittedly Hanniffy was hurling well, Sullivan was short of his best and Molloy was getting on a lot of ball, even if he gave away a good bit, so Birr could have won that sector anyway - but why change the best part of your team.

Up front the cupboard was really bare. Ger Scales started well but Michael Verney was much too good for him when he moved across, I felt sorry for Niall Wynne with the amount of high ball that went in on top of him, and every other player in that sector was cleaned from start to finish. I see Diarmuid Horan was named on the programme - he obviously wasn't togged or they would have sent him in surely. A lot will have to change in that sextet next year for Rynaghs to improve because as things stand you'd be hard pressed to name another senior forward line in the county as weak. Birr just cut out the fouls, and without Gary Kelly scoring ten frees, Rynaghs were starved.

Coolderry hurled well, but they got the run of the ball at a crucial time - the six point swing in the first half when K/K had their goal chance (Geraghty I think, can't remember) and it got saved, ball down the field and Damien Murray got his goal. A potentially level match was suddenly a six point deficit, and then the unfortunate concession of Martin Corcoran's goal then killed the game entirely. Some of the K/K lads kept hurling in the second half, but several of them gave up the ghost too. As was pointed out elsewhere, there are a lot of county players on that team who didn't look like county players yesterday.

I have to ask the question - if Pad Joe hasn't done anything for the fragile mentality of this team, what does he really bring to the table? He managed a freakishly talented group of players to incredible success with Birr, but that's a completely different task requiring a different skillset to getting a Kilcormac/Killoughey team, endowed with a lot more natural physical gifts than natural hurling gifts, over the line in Offaly. Kilcormac have now got to nine out of the last ten semi-finals, losing six of those and losing the three finals that they did reach. Not unlike Shamrocks footballers, there comes a time when you have to start looking beyond ability and tactics as the issue.


On the corresponding football thread, somebody posted that the county badly needs a good championship final. I actually think the hurling championship needs it more. Five of the six knockout games played so far have been handy wins for one team or the other, and the entire group two round robin campaign was a write off as well. At least in the football semis you could point to a very strong performance from Clara that would have tested any team. Birr and Coolderry possibly had another gear to go to yesterday, but we'll never know because they weren't asked to find it.

I would agree with most of the post. However I would disagree with the posters statement that Coolderry & Birr are not good teams but rather teams with weaker links than others in the championship. The truth is that both Birr & Coolderry haven proven themselves as being quality hurling teams of real pedigree.

I would also state two things.

1. There was more atmosphere in my sitting room when I was watching Ireland Vs USA at 6am on a sunday morning than there was in Tullamore last sunday. Given the attendance figure of 4,112. I think the county board have to look at Birr for the semi finals next year, the atmosphere at the two quarter finals held in birr was great to hear and see. Having spoken with some of the players who have played in both venues they have all commented on the difference in noise levels in both venues.

2. We will get a good county final, the last good county final was between these two teams in 2006 and they couldnt be seperated until the replay which again was a close affair. My only hope is that the atmosphere will live up to the occasion as there was no atmosphere before the games last sunday, its all very well to blame the fare on offer afterwards, the truth is if the matches were close, there still wouldnt have been a great atmosphere as a crowd of 4,000 odd is simply too small to make enough noise in a venue the size of OConnor Park

[townman]

i don't want to go into the OCP ST.Brendans debate again looks like the hurling is staying in tullamore and thats it yes theirs more atmosphere at a wake
than in tullamore and their was 1000 more there last sunday than was at the football semil final's.

as for Birr and Coolderry not good teams just the best of a bad bunch as Lone Shark said i don't know about Coolderry i know they went out early last year
but i can tell Lone Shark one thing if Birr come out of offaly this year it will take a good side to beat them in leinster their record shows this.

Birr are well able to go toe to toe with any county champions in leinster or ireland for that matter and with a bit of luck they could go a long way in leinster
well thats if they win the county first, i also think Coolderry will want to make up for last years flop if they come out of offaly and also have the hurlers
and on form won't fear many club teams in leinster.

so lets get behind our club side matter who they are that wins out in offaly instead of saying they are only in the county final because the rest are poor
Birr havent won 7 leinsters and 4 club all irelands because the club form was bad in offaly.

[townman]

I think that unless you were a supporter of either Birr or Coolderry, it would be hard to come away from O'Connor Park feeling positive. There's no question but that the two best and most deserving teams are in the county final and there is a lot to be said for that, but the overwhelming impression I was left with is that Birr and Coolderry aren't the best teams in the county because they are so good, but because they manage their limitations better and don't have as obvious weak links.

To take the Birr and Rynaghs game first, and obviously I'd concur with most of the posters above. Barry Harding was outstanding, Michael Verney not far behind him, and you'd also have to say that Neil Rogers, Paul Cleary, Sean Ryan, Rory Hanniffy and Brian Mullins showed on more than a few occasions that they are extremely talented players too. That said, there were a few Birr players there who didn't impress me hugely, particularly up front, where there were several players that struggled to get on the ball and struggled to hold it when they did. To only score 2-9 on a day when the Rynaghs backs must have felt like they were hurling into a handball alley is not good going, regardless of the conditions. To only score two points in the second half is particularly poor form.

St Rynaghs made some progress to get back to a county semi final certainly, but it's hard to know how much of that was down to them and how much of it was down to Tullamore and Kinnitty going conspicuously backwards. Most of their backs did reasonably well - Dermot Shortt and Simon Lyons were the pick of the bunch for me, but overall their backline was decent. They did lose midfield, and a lot of that is down to their own management. Their trump card against Shinrone was the Kelly/Sullivan partnership. Why break it up? Back your own men to step up, and change it if it's not working. Don't give Rory Hanniffy and Paul Molloy time to settle into the game before moving Kelly back there. Admittedly Hanniffy was hurling well, Sullivan was short of his best and Molloy was getting on a lot of ball, even if he gave away a good bit, so Birr could have won that sector anyway - but why change the best part of your team.

Up front the cupboard was really bare. Ger Scales started well but Michael Verney was much too good for him when he moved across, I felt sorry for Niall Wynne with the amount of high ball that went in on top of him, and every other player in that sector was cleaned from start to finish. I see Diarmuid Horan was named on the programme - he obviously wasn't togged or they would have sent him in surely. A lot will have to change in that sextet next year for Rynaghs to improve because as things stand you'd be hard pressed to name another senior forward line in the county as weak. Birr just cut out the fouls, and without Gary Kelly scoring ten frees, Rynaghs were starved.

Coolderry hurled well, but they got the run of the ball at a crucial time - the six point swing in the first half when K/K had their goal chance (Geraghty I think, can't remember) and it got saved, ball down the field and Damien Murray got his goal. A potentially level match was suddenly a six point deficit, and then the unfortunate concession of Martin Corcoran's goal then killed the game entirely. Some of the K/K lads kept hurling in the second half, but several of them gave up the ghost too. As was pointed out elsewhere, there are a lot of county players on that team who didn't look like county players yesterday.

I have to ask the question - if Pad Joe hasn't done anything for the fragile mentality of this team, what does he really bring to the table? He managed a freakishly talented group of players to incredible success with Birr, but that's a completely different task requiring a different skillset to getting a Kilcormac/Killoughey team, endowed with a lot more natural physical gifts than natural hurling gifts, over the line in Offaly. Kilcormac have now got to nine out of the last ten semi-finals, losing six of those and losing the three finals that they did reach. Not unlike Shamrocks footballers, there comes a time when you have to start looking beyond ability and tactics as the issue.


On the corresponding football thread, somebody posted that the county badly needs a good championship final. I actually think the hurling championship needs it more. Five of the six knockout games played so far have been handy wins for one team or the other, and the entire group two round robin campaign was a write off as well. At least in the football semis you could point to a very strong performance from Clara that would have tested any team. Birr and Coolderry possibly had another gear to go to yesterday, but we'll never know because they weren't asked to find it.

good report LS but you seem to have left out the best hurler on display last sunday in both games Brian Watkins he cover Harding arse a few times in the first half
and i thought he was the best player on sunday then again everyone is intitle to their opinion.

[Lone Shark]

Sorry, Watkins was excellent as well - I noted that on my programme, no idea how I missed it posting on here. I thought his deliveries were a little blind whereas Harding's led to scores more often, but certainly it was intercounty form from him. In general the Birr backline was excellent, they look as well equipped as anyone could be to taking on Coolderry.

For the record, I'm not saying that Birr or Coolderry are bad teams - far from it. I'm saying that for the last couple of years we've had competitive championships in Offaly, but this year K/K, Tullamore and Kinnitty seem to have gone backwards, which leaves Birr and Coolderry out on their own. They might be very good, they might be only mediocre - my point is that as of yet, we can't tell because neither of them have got a genuine test this year. Coolderry are utterly unproven in Leinster, and while Birr's record as a club is outstanding, this is a new Birr team with a lot of young faces. They may yet turn out to be worthy of comparison with Birr sides of the past, but there is a long way to go before we can say that. Certainly they've been kindly treated by the draw - Oulart and the Kilkenny champions will be the other side, and Conal Keaney's absence combined with the breakneck speed that they will have to run off the Dublin championship at should handicap Ballyboden in a big way. Their dual commitments won't help either - there really should be a Leinster final in whatever Offaly team comes out of this championship.

Thirdly as for the atmosphere, ye are kidding yereselves if ye think that there would have been any atmosphere in St Brendan's Park on Sunday for those games. They were two mismatches that were over by half time - nothing could save the atmosphere in games like that. Plus, the vast majority of that 4000 crowd were happy to get seats in out of the mist and rain - how many would have been forced to stand if it was in Birr? If the county final is a good occasion with a close game and we still have no atmosphere, then the point is fair enough. Until then we just can't be sure.

[townman]

Sorry, Watkins was excellent as well - I noted that on my programme, no idea how I missed it posting on here. I thought his deliveries were a little blind whereas Harding's led to scores more often, but certainly it was intercounty form from him. In general the Birr backline was excellent, they look as well equipped as anyone could be to taking on Coolderry.

For the record, I'm not saying that Birr or Coolderry are bad teams - far from it. I'm saying that for the last couple of years we've had competitive championships in Offaly, but this year K/K, Tullamore and Kinnitty seem to have gone backwards, which leaves Birr and Coolderry out on their own. They might be very good, they might be only mediocre - my point is that as of yet, we can't tell because neither of them have got a genuine test this year. Coolderry are utterly unproven in Leinster, and while Birr's record as a club is outstanding, this is a new Birr team with a lot of young faces. They may yet turn out to be worthy of comparison with Birr sides of the past, but there is a long way to go before we can say that. Certainly they've been kindly treated by the draw - Oulart and the Kilkenny champions will be the other side, and Conal Keaney's absence combined with the breakneck speed that they will have to run off the Dublin championship at should handicap Ballyboden in a big way. Their dual commitments won't help either - there really should be a Leinster final in whatever Offaly team comes out of this championship.

Thirdly as for the atmosphere, ye are kidding yereselves if ye think that there would have been any atmosphere in St Brendan's Park on Sunday for those games. They were two mismatches that were over by half time - nothing could save the atmosphere in games like that. Plus, the vast majority of that 4000 crowd were happy to get seats in out of the mist and rain - how many would have been forced to stand if it was in Birr? If the county final is a good occasion with a close game and we still have no atmosphere, then the point is fair enough. Until then we just can't be sure.

there was a good few people who were in the stand for the football semil finals who got wet and were in the stand, as for Birr a young team there is only Brendan Murphy,
Thomas Bolger, Brian Longeran, Miley Nolan, who haven't played in Birr's last county and leinster title win.

[Greenwhiteandgold]

there was a good few people who were in the stand for the football semil finals who got wet and were in the stand, as for Birr a young team there is only Brendan Murphy,
Thomas Bolger, Brian Longeran, Miley Nolan, who haven't played in Birr's last county and leinster title win.[/quote]

Brian lonergan played in the county final in 08 against kinnity and scored a brilliant goal if i remember correctly.. so just bolger and murphy off the starting line up havent played in a senior county final...

[Lone Shark]

there was a good few people who were in the stand for the football semil finals who got wet and were in the stand, as for Birr a young team there is only Brendan Murphy,
Thomas Bolger, Brian Longeran, Miley Nolan, who haven't played in Birr's last county and leinster title win.

The other way of looking at that is that the four guys who played against Portumna in 2008 but weren't there today were Niall Claffey, Stephen Brown, Simon Whelahan and Brian Whelahan. Those are some monstrously big shoes to fill.

[Long John]

Have to agree with LS on a few points.

1. Brian Watkins did have a good game. And he has been consistently good. His clearances are a little rushed sometimes. He is very very quick to react to breaks and clear his lines. I think he can be a little too hurried by times. His opponent Healy won a bit of ball as well but did nothing with it really. Watkins with a little bit of coaching could be a decent addition to county panel. He works hard.

2. The atmosphere in Tullamore on Sunday was very bad but I dont think if it was in Birr that it would have been any better. The games were just dreadful and were over as contests before half time. I think that contributed mostly to the dead atmosphere. The most excited I heard any of the supporters getting was a few Birr supporters had issues with Tony Carroll's performance and let their feelings be known in no uncertain terms.

3. I think the teams in the final are well ahead of the rest. I think this Birr team is going in the right direction but has a long way to go to be up their with the former great teams. They moved the ball excellently at times on Sunday but I cant understand how they failed to put up a bigger score. Coolderry are a good side also. They are a team thats been together a while now and should be pushing on to a greater level. I think either team will struggle a bit in Leinster. I hope whoever wins however can go on and do Offaly proud in Leinster.

[southoffaly]

athmosphere in tullamore always shite didnt need last sundays matches to prove that .that pitch is always trerrible in wet weather , ground tends to be gluey , grass long also why was pitch not marked ( clearly lines werent painted in a while ) thats the respect they showed for the hurling .
the only fear i have of birr in the final is the 3 boys on the sideline if the game is in the melting pot with a few minutes to go ie. what decisions and tatics they come up with . they done alot of analyising with one another but feck all directing the players . the last 2 games the forward line had no shape to it at all ,got away with it sunday as banagher had no forwards . play like they did in shinrone and they will take coolderry no problem . mentioning bolger , nolan and lonergan shows haw far standards have dropped ,let you down like a shot when really needed .
what sunday showed from the four teams are the terrible county minor and u21 teams of the last few years . majority that played on them teams were bloody useless .as the wife ( tipperary ) said coming out of the ground if thats the best offaly hurling has to offer god help the next offaly manager . and from the sound bites on the ground we are up shite creak there aswell .

[townman]

athmosphere in tullamore always shite didnt need last sundays matches to prove that .that pitch is always trerrible in wet weather , ground tends to be gluey , grass long also why was pitch not marked ( clearly lines werent painted in a while ) thats the respect they showed for the hurling .
the only fear i have of birr in the final is the 3 boys on the sideline if the game is in the melting pot with a few minutes to go ie. what decisions and tatics they come up with . they done alot of analyising with one another but feck all directing the players . the last 2 games the forward line had no shape to it at all ,got away with it sunday as banagher had no forwards . play like they did in shinrone and they will take coolderry no problem . mentioning bolger , nolan and lonergan shows haw far standards have dropped ,let you down like a shot when really needed .
what sunday showed from the four teams are the terrible county minor and u21 teams of the last few years . majority that played on them teams were bloody useless .as the wife ( tipperary ) said coming out of the ground if thats the best offaly hurling has to offer god help the next offaly manager . and from the sound bites on the ground we are up shite creak there aswell .

Who took your custard cream's one minute Birr are brutal then play as they did in Shinrone and they are world winner's, whats your problem with paul murphy i think he is
doing a great job and has Birr back into the county final.

lads would want to sit back and have a look right Birr are not the side they were year's ago but i think losing the likes of Sid Whelahan, Claffey, Frank's ,joe Eritty, Johnny pilkington
and Declan, Stephen Browne, Paul o'meara, Gary Cahill, and still be able to be at the top table for the last 22 years is some achievement for the club.

you have mention Thomas Bolger, Miley Nolan, and Lonergan and have let Birr down in a shot Bullsh.t, this is Bolgers 2 year miley is only a sub Bryan Lonergan has been doing ok
the last few years and has a good eye for a goal as he has showing so far this year plus he has a county and leinster club medal you are forgetting they are club hurlers not county.

Paul Murphy is a good manger as i have spoken to a few lads from Rathdowney who i have work with and had great time for him as Rathdowney-Errill won 2 championships with him
as for not knowing what to do on the line in the last two matches they have made switches that has taking their opponent forward out of the game's ie Dooley and Ger Scales.

as for giving out about the county team and god help the new offaly manger i think offaly were unlucky this year and with the 6 players they were missing the would have beaten Dublin if they had them the same Dublin team that should have beaten tipp.

as for your wife (TIPPEARLY) saying if thats what offaly have god help the new manger i would think she is still a little sore that the cats put her tipp back into their box this year

[Plain of the Herbs]

I'll reply to this here as it relates more to Club hurling than it does to the cost of going to matches.

Townie,

This is a discussion forum where people post their opinions for discussion. They are posted to be argued with as people see fit. If people argue with you and you can't take it then you've got a problem. I don't have such a problem. If people disagree with me, fine. I'll consider their counter-argument and in some cases will either back up my case or back down.

I backed up my case on Birr's backs in my post prior to the semi-final. In it, I noted my reservations about Neil Rogers' capabilities as a centre half-back. The Birr management apparently shared those reservations because they moved Rogers to left half and started Barry Harding in the centre.

Birr also switched their corner-backs during the first half, so it seems to me the Birr defence is still a work-in-progress.

Plain of the Herbs

you seem to have the answer for everything so who would you like to see over the hurling team, also on another note
you never replied to my question to you over who had the best back's in club hurling in offaly as you said Coolderry and tullamore had
and you didn't know or see Birr's this year.

i am sure if i was wrong or they hadn't the best Backline in the county you would have been back on to give me my answer you migh yet if they lose
the county final this sunday maybe thats what your waiting for.

no i am not a hurling genius as you said but everyone has a opinion just because you don't agree it doesn't mean its wrong.

hope you will be on the terrace this sunday and gives us a big shout

Finally, is there a joke I don't get in the 'Tippearly' comment in the post above or is that how you spell the County's name?

[townman]

I'll reply to this here as it relates more to Club hurling than it does to the cost of going to matches.

Townie,

This is a discussion forum where people post their opinions for discussion. They are posted to be argued with as people see fit. If people argue with you and you can't take it then you've got a problem. I don't have such a problem. If people disagree with me, fine. I'll consider their counter-argument and in some cases will either back up my case or back down.

I backed up my case on Birr's backs in my post prior to the semi-final. In it, I noted my reservations about Neil Rogers' capabilities as a centre half-back. The Birr management apparently shared those reservations because they moved Rogers to left half and started Barry Harding in the centre.

Birr also switched their corner-backs during the first half, so it seems to me the Birr defence is still a work-in-progress.

Plain of the Herbs

you seem to have the answer for everything so who would you like to see over the hurling team, also on another note
you never replied to my question to you over who had the best back's in club hurling in offaly as you said Coolderry and tullamore had
and you didn't know or see Birr's this year.

i am sure if i was wrong or they hadn't the best Backline in the county you would have been back on to give me my answer you migh yet if they lose
the county final this sunday maybe thats what your waiting for.

no i am not a hurling genius as you said but everyone has a opinion just because you don't agree it doesn't mean its wrong.

hope you will be on the terrace this sunday and gives us a big shout

Finally, is there a joke I don't get in the 'Tippearly' comment in the post above or is that how you spell the County's name?

i don't think birr management team shared your reservations on Birrs backs as the dogs on the street knew that Barry Harding would be centre back as he played
there in Birr first round games before he left, he played most of the game again tullamore in at centre back .

but as you said you didn't see Birr much this year so you weren't to know.

[Plain of the Herbs]

To get the build-up underway, we’ll have a look at how Birr and Coolderry have fared against each other.

Only Coolderry and Tullamore have beaten Birr in the last decade. Tullamore beat Birr three times while Coolderry’s sole win in that time came in that 2004 Final win. Coolderry’s two previous wins over Birr came in group matches in 1991 and 1992, but in both years Birr advanced to the semi-finals with play-off wins over Coolderry.

Traditionally Coolderry had an edge over Birr, and in the 1980s Coolderry had group wins over Birr in 1980, ’81, ’83. ’84 and ’85 during a period when Birr were no good and Coolderry were regular semi-finalists.

Birr burst on the scene with a young team in 1986 and drew with Coolderry in the opening round though Coolderry were eventual champions. Coolderry were about to enter a trough themselves which lasted until the current team burst on the scene in 2001. Still, 1986 is a good place to start. All matches are group matches unless otherwise stated.

1986 – Birr 3-7 . . . . . . . Coolderry 3-7 (draw)
1989 – Birr 2-16 . . . . . . Coolderry 1-9
1991 – Coolderry 2-14 . . Birr 2-5
1991 – Birr 2-9 . . . . . . .Coolderry 2-6 (playoff)
1992 - Coolderry 4-8 . . Birr 1-11
1992 – Birr 5-13 . . . . . Coolderry 1-9 (playoff)
1996 – Birr 3-8 . . . . . . Coolderry 1-11
1997 – Birr 1-13 . . . . . Coolderry 1-10
1998 – Birr 0-16 . . . . . Coolderry 0-8
1999 – Birr 2-15 . . . . . Coolderry 0-12
2001 – Birr 1-13 . . .. . Coolderry 1-13 (semi-final)
2001 – Birr 5-20 . . . . . Coolderry 1-8 (replay)
2003 – Birr 1-17 . . . . . Coolderry 0-13
2004 – Coolderry 3-10 . .Birr 2-11 (Final)
2005 – Birr 0-20 . . . . . .Coolderry 0-5 (Final)
2006 – Birr 0-11 . . . . . Coolderry 1-8 (Final)
2006 – Birr 2-9 . . . . . . Coolderry 1-11 (replay)
2007 – Birr 2-9 . . . . . . Coolderry 0-12 (semi-final)
2009 – Birr 0-15 . . . . . Coolderry 1-8
2011 – Birr 1-16 . . . . . Coolderry 0-11