Niall McNamee running for election?

[Lone Shark]

This is very much rumour, but in a thread over on politics.ie regarding the local elections, there are some posters suggesting that Niall McNamee is being lined up to run on the Fianna Fáil ticket in the Edenderry ward of the upcoming local elections. There's very little detail, but you'll see the thread here: http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/3454 ... 9-a-3.html

Now I understand that this isn't a political discussion board so to speak, but it is a GAA discussion board and an Offaly discussion board, so I'm going to put this out there - I consider this move to be very bizarre to say the least. I don't know Niall as an individual, but he doesn't appear to be the type to look for the limelight or anything like that, and I certainly don't recall him ever putting any views about anything other than football into the public domain. Getting involved with Fianna Fáil at the moment seems like an odd move, particularly over in North Offaly where I can only assume that there will be a considerable backlash against them, both in terms of the disproportionately high spike in unemployment at that end of the county and in response to Ger Killally's behaviour. Obviously, and from a selfish point of view, it would be a pity for Niall to return to Offaly only to be distracted by something like this, while it will also create a rod for his own back when he's playing. In an ideal world people forget about your private life when you're on the field, but there are a lot of people out there who are really finding things very difficult at the moment and rightly or wrongly (we all have our own views on that!), Fianna Fáil are widely perceived to have taken a global problem and greatly exacerbated the effect that we feel due to their own actions.

Not to put too fine a point on it, there are a lot of people very angry, to the point of aggression, at our current government and taking their side is a sure fire way to put a dent in the considerable amount of goodwill that Niall has built up within Offaly over the past few years. (Those who think I'm exaggerating should ask themselves why this would then be necessary - http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... html?r=RSS)

Can anyone substantiate or deny that Niall is being lined up to run? Can anyone tell me why in God's name he's considering it, because for the life of me I can't figure it out? Are there posters on here who would vote for him? Any thoughts?

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Perhaps he is what all politicians should be, enthusiastic, idealistic and believes he can make a difference. Would it not be worse if he declined to seek election for a particular party because he knew they were unpopular? In this instance at least we know that he believes in his party no matter what others opinions may be. Whatever side of the political spectrum you fall, one can only admire a politician who has convictions.

Whether there is any substance in this rumour is highly questionable to say the least. I for one am extremely sceptical, but regardless I wish all candidates, inter-county GAA players or otherwise, the very best of luck.

[RhodeRunner]

Holy jesus. Well dont know if thats true. but if it is he's getting my vote every time. An Absolute gent.

[bracknaghboy]

Fianna Fail are going to take a pasting in Edenderry and rightly so. What other part of the world would this crap take place. The leader of the country is from Offaly (Remamber Cowen has been a senior member of government for many years now) and the east of the county is a mess. No jobs, no link road to the N6 as promised, population was allowed to double but no amenities to go with it. Edenderry itself is like a ghost town yet is home to 8,000 residents.....i could go on. That Cowen and his party have done nothing for Edenderry in the last 15 years.
So if Niall Mc does run he will get the hight of abuse at the doors and thats a fact......I dont think the Pope himself if he ran in east Offaly would have a chance the people are sick of FF.

[Lone Shark]

Perhaps he is what all politicians should be, enthusiastic, idealistic and believes he can make a difference. Would it not be worse if he declined to seek election for a particular party because he knew they were unpopular? In this instance at least we know that he believes in his party no matter what others opinions may be. Whatever side of the political spectrum you fall, one can only admire a politician who has convictions.

Whether there is any substance in this rumour is highly questionable to say the least. I for one am extremely sceptical, but regardless I wish all candidates, inter-county GAA players or otherwise, the very best of luck.

That's actually an excellent point. I can't figure out for the life of me what Fianna Fáil stand for other than power for the sake of power, but clearly it serves the common good if someone enters into the system because they have a clear belief system and they feel that a certain party reflects those beliefs.

If Niall does choose to run and is selected to run, then he'll get ample opportunity to explain what he believes in and why Fianna Fáil best reflects that. I for one would certainly look forward to that.

Fianna Fail are going to take a pasting in Edenderry and rightly so. What other part of the world would this crap take place. The leader of the country is from Offaly (Remamber Cowen has been a senior member of government for many years now) and the east of the county is a mess. No jobs, no link road to the N6 as promised, population was allowed to double but no amenities to go with it. Edenderry itself is like a ghost town yet is home to 8,000 residents.....i could go on. That Cowen and his party have done nothing for Edenderry in the last 15 years.
So if Niall Mc does run he will get the hight of abuse at the doors and thats a fact......I dont think the Pope himself if he ran in east Offaly would have a chance the people are sick of FF.

Not that I'm looking to pick a geographically based fight or anything, but in the last local election the Edenderry ward cast 57% of their votes towards government parties, while this was even slightly increased in the 2007 general election. Surely there would be a case for saying that with that in mind, the area has got exactly what it voted for?

[bracknaghboy]

Not that I'm looking to pick a geographically based fight or anything, but in the last local election the Edenderry ward cast 57% of their votes towards government parties, while this was even slightly increased in the 2007 general election. Surely there would be a case for saying that with that in mind, the area has got exactly what it voted for?

LS you are spot on there......and its an alarming stat. However the difference now is that the "Recession" has brought to light the situation to everybody. The whole county is worried not just the north/east of Offaly. I've never been political in my life to be honest but I and most others feel that a change is needed. If Cowen will abandon half of Offaly can you imagine how he must be treating the rest of the country??

[GreatDayForTheParish]

That's a very good point Lone Shark, all of Edenderry's woes (if they indeed exist at all, I am not familiar with the area) were not created in the last year. People had ample opportunity to show their displeasure, if they had any, in the vote booth. They did not. Now I'm sure the reason the majority of people voted for Fianna Fail in Edenderry was that they believed, for a variety of reasons, that Fianna Fail were doing a pretty good job. No doubt few were naive enough to believe that a perfect job was being done but certainly one good enough to merit giving them another chance. Therefore none with a shred of logic could say the FF have been a disaster for 15 years when the people have consistently voted for them. If you still insist that FF were and are terrible, then you are by extension suggesting that the electorate are consistently wrong and do not have the capacity to exercise a general election. But if totalitarianism is your desire then so be it.

I generally dislike and avoid political discussions for balanced conversations are usually extremely difficult to elicit. Too much blinkered bias exists; one party is always right while the rest are consistently wrong. Nevertheless, some of the comments in this thread leave much to be desired so I feel that not to address them would represent something of a lost opportunity.

Hindsight is both a wonderful and cursed device. Because of what has occurred globally over the last year, suddenly everything FF have done for the past decade has been terrible. Men and women that were but two years ago good enough to be entrusted with the running of the county are now suddenly corrupt bandits. All of them fools, apparently. This mathematically can not be the case. A whole party, the largest in the country, is utterly and completely rotten to the core. I am not defending the government, I am merely asking for balance and common sense to be exercised when judging the situation. Most definitely judge the actions of the government, but also those of the opposition. That is perhaps more important. For example how many of the opposition parties demanded consistently for action with regards to the construction industry in the last four years? That perhaps a controlled deceleration was needed and that not to do so would contribute to the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression? And I stress the word consistently, for to do so emphasises importance and makes an political issue of a topic. A child can mention anything once in passing. The simple fact is nobody did, including we the people, for even a controlled deceleration of an industry entails job losses albeit in a more gradual nature. No, we were happy, all of us, to continue on in our relatively wealth. The people, the government and the opposition must collectively shoulder the blame.

Also I would ask people to be extremely conscientious when voting in the upcoming elections. The worst anybody can do is vote for the opposition merely for the sake of change. Change is great when it works, disastrous when it fails, just ask Richie Connor. Currently it is far too easy for the opposition parties to merely spout populist agendas without any solutions in the hope of attracting desperate votes. Lets take 'Save Jobs!' as a common example. Brilliant, I agree. For anybody to loose their job is truly a terrible experience. But always always ask how saving these jobs would be funded. Raise Taxes? Cut public spending to prop up these jobs? Is there a market for these jobs in the future? Demand answers and solutions of the opposition, so that should a general election arise then at least we, the people, will know what to expect of our government. Make the opposition work harder for our votes for there is no easy solution to the current crisis. One opposition party in the Dail has been very reasonable in offering alternative solutions, the remainder have been disastrous and downright arrogant, believing that we will throw them our votes.

As already alluded to there is no simple solution to the current crisis. Economics is often perceived as being difficult, but with regards to our current public finances it is actually quite simple. A large and unsustainable deficit currently exists. This can only be corrected in three ways (like personal finances): 1. Cut Spending (for a government this means public spending), 2. Earn More (i.e. raise taxes) or 3. Borrow (a poor option and the course of action undertaken in the 1980's). There are no other options and let no politician from any creed try to convince you otherwise. Each of the above if implemented will elicit pain and complaints and strikes from various groups. Choose which course of action you prefer carefully and prepare.

On a final note there is an old divide that exists in politics, right vs. left. Each side espouses their perceived benefits. But remember this, all around the world governments from both sides of the political spectrum have been affected equally by this crisis. And believe this, it is a worldwide, historical crisis of the financial markets. So let none fool you into thinking that the right is right or that the left is the way forward. The easiest manner in which this can be illustrated is to look to Great Britain. Here, Labour is doing well in the polls while in Great Britain they are falling as quick as Fianna Fail. Similarly the Conservatives rise while Fianna Fail flounder. The same poll numbers are replicated all over the world. So either every democratically elected government across the developed world has been utterly incompetent for the last 10 years or people are looking too easily to the opposition for a magic solution. This solution does not exist.

In short, educate yourselves and vote wisely. I know I will.

I could continue for hours but I feel that this is enough for now.
And I apologise for boring you all to tears on a GAA forum.


(Writers note: The two edits were just to correct spelling mistakes in the main body and no more).

[Lone Shark]

Greatdayfortheparish, that's an outstanding post and I hope the other posters on the board here won't mind if we continue this little aside from local GAA and run with the topic at hand, since I think it's never time wasted myself. Hopefully it'll be indulged by those who have little interest in such matters!

.... educate yourselves and vote wisely. I know I will.

Ultimately this is the best that anyone can do, and your exhortation that the electorate informs themselves before engaging is obviously good advice - however the democratic system makes this somewhat difficult. Not to put too fine a point on it, you need a licence to own a dog, you need a licence to drive a car, but you need no such qualification to have your say in the running of the country. I'm not talking about people who vote on single issues, that's good democracy at work and if something as trivial as TV aerials is an important enough issue for a voter to use their ballot to express that, then so much the better. I'm talking about the people who vote for no good reason at all. Voting on the basis that a guy you've never met seems like a sound fella to have a pint with, that kind of nonsense.

The perfect argument for this point is election posters - these should clearly be banned in any functioning democracy. Think about it logically - they are expensive, unsightly and can cause litter long before and after the event. You'd like to think that no citizen would cast their vote based on a poster, but if they don't, why is so much time and money spent on their creation and erection? It defies logic. People are obviously voting based on this litter, and yet that vote counts the very same as somebody who takes time out to delve into every party's manifesto in order to try and gleam which group stands for their beliefs best.

The point I'm driving at is that people are badly informed, they vote for the wrong reasons and nothing is done to change that system. Any candidate who went round door to door telling the truth about his/her plans would quite frankly be savaged since people don't like to hear bad news. To take your example about the three ways that all deficits must be funded:

As already alluded to there is no simple solution to the current crisis. Economics is often perceived as being difficult, but with regards to our current public finances it is actually quite simple. A large and unsustainable deficit currently exists. This can only be corrected in three ways (like personal finances): 1. Cut Spending (for a government this means public spending), 2. Earn More (i.e. raise taxes) or 3. Borrow (a poor option and the course of action undertaken in the 1980's). There are no other options and let no politician from any creed try to convince you otherwise. Each of the above if implemented will elicit pain and complaints and strikes from various groups. Choose which course of action you prefer carefully and prepare.

You are of course correct - however if I were to stand for election in the next GE and present any of the above or indeed some combination of them all as the solution, then I would be savaged - the guy who would beat me would have gone around presenting something along the following lines:

"We need to do more to eliminate waste - e-voting machines could have paid for all this!" (Forgetting of course that this money is already spent)

"I'll fight harder to get a better share of resources for this area" (Exactly what this country needs - nobody worried about adding more soup to the bowl, just fighting for the biggest spoon for themselves)

"We need to stimulate the economy in a downturn" (Keynesian policies such as this are all very well when you're willing to pay the piper on the other side - we clearly weren't, so this is now nothing more than populist claptrap.)

I used to believe that the electorate thought about their votes, but I've seen things that have made it very clear that they don't. Whoever tells them the nicest fairy story wins. It's all lies from every side (except from the truly inept who actually believe what they say due to pure ignorance - like that FF councillor on the radio last week saying that the Irish Government should have a part to play in deciding the country's credit rating) and that's what we reward, so it's not fair to blame either government or opposition parties for playing the game.

Where that leaves us is in a situation where we cannot judge politicians, either individually or as a group, by what they say. We must judge them by what they do. On this basis, the opposition are utterly unknown. They may have some great ideas, they may plan on selling off all the first born children for cash, we don't know. All we know is that what they preach from the opposite side of Leinster House is nothing other than nuts to monkeys and to look into it any deeper than this is futile. Which leads us to....

The worst anybody can do is vote for the opposition merely for the sake of change. Change is great when it works, disastrous when it fails, just ask Richie Connor.

On this I fundamentally disagree with you. I'm quite the fan of the dictum that you need to change governments just as you change an infant's nappy, with relative frequency and for the same reasons. A government who has been in power for any length of time becomes immobile and inflexible, simply because to change tack would be to infer that past decisions were wrong. Right now, FF, even if they wanted to, can't row back on things like benchmarking because they know that it will be seen as an admission of error. If a new government were in place, they can keep the good stuff and row back on the bad. (I'm not saying benchmarking was good or bad for the purposes of this debate, merely that it was one example of a contentious decision). It greatly reduces the risk of corruption since corruption is most common when politicians become entrenched and when they feel that they'll have time to cover their tracks.

Also, I personally believe that since we don't really have policy-based politics in this country, power is wielded according to what way the wind is blowing at the time. Fianna Fáil entered the last general election with dark clouds of corruption hanging over their leader and several of their minions. The results of the election essentially gave them a mandate to carry on as before, so it made perfect sense that they considered the coast clear to bring Beverley Cooper Flynn back on board as their first move. It was the perfect example of giving the public what they want - ye vote for corrupt cute hoorism, we bring in the most devious iron-necked chancer of them all. For this reason too, change keeps a government in line, particularly as standards are slipping.


Finally, regarding the sudden change of tide and the flow of anger against governments worldwide, I do think that it's legitimate. There are many out there who saw the current crisis coming, however there are many more who simply did not have the means to decipher that the whole thing was built upon sand. Irish people didn't realise that the reason we were so well off for the past five or six years was because of borrowed money. Somebody in a position of influence needed to stand up and make that clear - this is a temporary boom, please don't get used to it. Of course that would have been politically unwise, so the party was kept going and now people suddenly realise that here we are, with a splitting headache and an ATM receipt that shows that we withdrew our full overdraft limit in order to pay for the binge. For want of a better phrase, the electorate needs to stand up and admit childishness, but those who KNEW what was going on must take greater responsibility still.

This is not meant as a generalisation, but I find it hard to blame the poor young lad who never really understood economics or maths, but who just went out to make a living lifting blocks. He got handed a grand a week for his efforts and everybody he listened to told him to treat it like it would go on forever. Parents exhorted that "rent was dead money" and that he needed to get on the property ladder. The Taoiseach memorably said that "the boom is getting boomier". Lads like David McWilliams and Morgan Kelly were dismissed as cranks, while vested interests like Dan McLaughlin and Austin Hughes were given airtime, peddling their wares and telling the world to buy, borrow and binge because we were the best nation on earth.

So who's to blame in all that?

More to the point, can the electorate be blamed for suddenly baring their teeth and wielding what little influence they have?

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Excellent post Lone Shark and it raises a number of interesting points. Since I haven’t quite mastered the quote feature on this forum, for the sake of clarity I’ll attempt to deal with them in roughly the same order as they arose in your piece.

The first issue is that of the electorate and the question mark that can hang over their ability to educate and inform themselves sufficiently enough for the responsibility of voting in a general election. This is very much a philosophical matter for which there is no right answer. You have a few years on me and the experience that this brings has recently taught you that people are fooled too easily by the nicest ‘fairy story’. Pathetically easily really.
I, even though younger, have long realised this and my faith in the ability of the public to exercise sound judgment is very low to say the least. Take the Lisbon Treaty for example. Roughly 12 months ago, the IRA (aka Sinn Fein) and the rest of the No campaign began a very deliberate yet determined smear campaign against the Lisbon Treaty. They claimed in various guises, but never in the national media, that its passage would ensure gay marriage, abortion and the loss of Ireland’s ability to determine its own rate of corporate tax. These assertions were quite simply not true, in fact they were utter lies and the action of spreading them should be illegal. Yet how many people believed them? I was listening to RTE Radio1 a mere four days before the election and eight of the ten members of the public interviewed said they would be voting no for any of the ‘reasons’ mentioned above. This quite simply is total and utter stupidity for which there is no excuse. I have the utmost respect for those who voted no for the desire to maintain a less bureaucratic EU but to vote no for reasons based on the politics of fear shows how many people are slaves to their emotions. When emotions are high, rationality tends to disappear and that is nothing short of dangerous. Many will regard this as an isolated case but in essence it ties in with people voting for the ‘sound man’ who’ll fix the pothole or get their granny a medical card instead of the candidate who has great ideas on how to role out the cervical cancer vaccine programme nationally for less money. (And for the record, voting no for protest reasons against the government was also juvenile. The forum for a protest vote is in a general election and not in an EU referendum where the wrong decision can damage a country regardless of who is in power for years to come.)

On the issue of people being misinformed, many will claim that the Lisbon Treaty (sticking with this example!) was an incomprehensible document and that for the public to educate themselves was impossibly hard. The former is true, the latter is not. Although a complicated and convoluted document information and debate regarding it was absolutely everywhere, print media, TV, radio, the internet and so on and so forth. To educate oneself about it undoubtedly required effort but not much and that is exactly what should be required of an electorate in a democracy. Do people want their minds made up for them? The same concept applies for all political processes requiring public involvement, all the information required is readily accessible but people often just could not be bothered. Either that or the source from which they acquire the information is utterly biased and completly subjective, resembling inflammatory propaganda more than anything else (ie tabloids). So yes, Lone Shark, I agree with you, the people are badly informed but I believe it unfortunately to be more by choice and laziness than by any failing of the system on their part.

So I think we agree that too many people vote for deplorable reasons thus lowering the standards of what politicians can preach to the public for votes. But what can be done to rectify the situation? This is where it gets very difficult and I honestly don’t have any solution. Mandatory adult political education classes even though we have CSPE in schools? Require people to buy a ‘Voting License’ (price determined by income) before every election, thus weeding out those who really don’t care or value their vote enough? Force everyone to take an IQ test, those who score less that 100 are excluded form the voting process? All suggestions seem draconian, extreme and to put it mildly a little authoritarian. The whole issue becomes extraordinarily philosophical and rhetorical. If anybody else any ideas, by all means throw them out.


On the issue of the current financial crisis it must be remembered that what we are witnessing is truly historical. The manner in which money and markets operate will never be the same again and that is no understatement. Over the last 10-15 years the western world has largely been fuelled by credit. Government and private citizens across the developed world from America to Japan fuelled themselves with borrowed money (Ireland, I believe, did not Lone Shark, and indeed recorded budget surpluses during much of the 2000’s; a lot of this money was used to service the public debt that had arisen form the 1980’s).
The reasons for such borrowing were many and people believed that the good times would not end mainly for the reason that they had great faith in the intelligence of humans and the complex economic systems this intelligence had generated. Every great crash is usually precipitated by an over valuing in commodities, in 1929 this was stocks which had risen exponentially during the 1920’s. In the 2000’s the commodities were land/property. Again casting our eyes beyond our isle, unsustainable property booms occurred during the 2000’s in the following countries: United States, Argentina, Britain, Netherlands, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, Spain, France, Poland, South Africa, Israel, Greece, Bulgaria, Croatia, Canada, Norway, Singapore, South Korea, Sweden, Baltic states, India, Romania, Russia, Ukraine and China.
Therefore it is clear that we as people were not alone in our greed and our mistakes. There is no doubt that all of these governments made mistakes but none did it knowing that this would happen. In fact few thought that what has occurred was even possible. Yes, people such as David Mc Williams did call it and consistently highlighted a growing problem but worldwide they were in the minority. The World Economic Forum in 2006 and 2007, a collection of the foremost experts on economics, did not foretell such problems occurring.

My point on this is that no one, including all the opposition parties, foresaw this crises. Since not one opposition party shouted stop before the crash I will not entertain any notions that they would have averted it. For example I heard much about the health service over the last five years (and rightly so) but nothing about how our financial institutions were exposed towards the American property market and subprime mortgages. No one, with our exposed economy, could have prevented this crisis from spreading to Ireland. Therefore my vote in any upcoming elections will be based exclusively on how any party aims to correct the public finances in the future and not what they claim they may have done in the past.

The electorate is right to be angry but this crisis transcends mere poor decision taking by politicians and economists from around the world, it is a complete collapse of the system. Equate it to not the car being driven too fast but instead just falling apart by the rivets as you drive it. All I hope for is the public not to believe any tripe fed to them that party x saw this coming and will make everything sunny again for no pain. What matters now is that people realise that living standards will drop over the next few years, the manner in which this is achieved should determine their votes.

Again I could continue but given that this post is already disgracefully long I'll call a stop to it here.

[Lone Shark]

Fair points all. Lest I really drive people away, I'll keep the response as brief as I can, just throwing in a few points:

(1) The reason so much of the Lisbon Treaty debate was fought on such ridiculous grounds was because of article 49 of the treaty, which appeared to be foregoing our right to future referenda on any EU treaty - I tried for the life of me to get anyone on either side to confirm or deny that article 49 signed away that right to a plebiscite on any such contentious issue in the future, but nobody would answer it clearly - hence you got crackpots like Kathy Sinnott peddling ridiculous apocalyptic scenarios like babies on heroin and the like. To take this back to this debate at hand here, the point was that nobody wanted to talk about the facts - the yes side just instructed us to sign up like a good little electorate and do what we're told, the no side talked about goblins and demons from europe that would eat us alive. Once again, logical discussion of the facts got nowhere.

(2) How to fix it - I think it's very simple. You just have a theory test, not unlike what is done to get your provisional licence. It wouldn't be difficult stuff, but just enough to weed out those who plainly don't have a clue. (e.g. which of the following is not a member of Dáil Éireann, (a) an Taoiseach, (b) an Tánaiste, (c) the President - that sort of thing) Those who don't care wouldn't bother taking the time out to do it, but then wouldn't be voting on the basis on nonsensical reasons. (Like all the students who voted for that Clifford something or other who came up with the wonderful "stop the paedophiles" tagline. No doubt to the great dismay of the large pro-paedophilia lobby )

(3) The irish government was fuelled by credit just as much as any other - the difference was that ours was private credit. Our government looked on as people took on mortgages and loans that they couldn't afford, not caring as long as they got a slice of the action at every step - stamp duty, VAT, excise, VRT, we borrowed, they took a cut at every juncture. The debt is officially not owed by the state, but by the citizens instead. Our debt to GNP is comparitively low, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that in terms of privately held debt, we're world number one. So same difference really.

(4) Regarding blaming the Irish government for world events, I think what we have to do there is compare how we are affected relative to others. I think that the Irish people are quite docile and stoic, so if it was a case of we were suffering, but no more or less than the EU average, then there would be no problem. However we have a ridiculously large budget deficit, twice the percentage of the next worst, while our bank guarantee has us on the hook for more than the country can afford. Essentially we appear to be a lot worse than the average - and in this regard, then I think our leaders have to be held to account.



Also, we're still none the wiser as to whether Niall McNamee is going to be a candidate for the local elections later, but Niall, if you're out there and feel like chipping in, we'd love to have your perspective!!!

[GreatDayForTheParish]

I second the motion for a mandatory 'Politics Test' for every voting citizen. The idealists would detest it but no matter.

[Bord na Mona man]

All parties have proven themselves inept, I think we need to start looking at independent minded politicians.
Ones who aren't shackled by party allegiances.

I'm thinking in particular of politicians like John Bracken.
If Ireland is to steer its way out of this turmoil, we need lads like Bracken with their hands on the rudder!

[Plain of the Herbs]

I used to thin there was no-one who would vote for a particular candidate on the grounds of an election poster, as noted above.
But, I know people who voted for Bracken as a result of his poster campaign!!

Given Bracken's decent vote in the last general election, he must stand a decent chance of taking a seat in the forthcoming local election.

Incidentally, who do folks reckon will be the sitting councillor to lose out in the Ferbane area in June?

I'm thinking in particular of politicians like John Bracken.
If Ireland is to steer its way out of this turmoil, we need lads like Bracken with their hands on the rudder!

[The Magpie]

I second the motion for a mandatory 'Politics Test' for every voting citizen. The idealists would detest it but no matter.

Separation.

Translation: English to Afrikaans

Apartheid.

This is certainly new world politics you guys are preaching here

Let's get the people with the brains to vote

If you are as well schooled in politics as the posts above suggest (and they do), you'll both know what Universal Suffrage represents. How people decide to cast their vote is as much their right as suffrage is. And I'm no idealist - at least, I didn't feel like one until I started to read this thread... maybe you've turned me into one

Now lets all get behind BnMM and his campaign for 'independents'.

[Doon Massive]

I also back the independents, is this a groundswell of support we have here?
Is there a doorstep on this forum?

FF have too many vested interests for the past few years, and had no interest in cutting back. Now they will try their best to protect all their buddies and cronies, while the little guy takes it hard and fast.

The banking crisis would make a hell of a comedy, if it weren't true.