Offaly Minor Management A Complete Joke

[Muck Savage]

OF - I for one am not interested in talking about you, I would like to hear how you would suggest this be fixed for the good of Offaly hurling. I'd love to hear your inputs (and I'm not trying to be smart or anything), you make valid points in your argument which I can understand where they come from so I think you'd have some valid fixes also to the problem

[Lone Shark]

I'm here to talk about offaly gaa
your here to talk about me.

Plenty of forums out there for apes like you.
Why not try and post something related to Offaly Gaa, i doubt you be able.

Go way oura that with the personal stuff. No need for it.

OF, taking a step back, you must admit that this is a seriously inconsistent position you're taking up here. It completely goes against a lot of stuff you mentioned earlier with regard to ex-players getting involved, while claiming that his tenure at Mullagh was not at the very least a positive indication of his potential as a manager is a ridiculous assertion. I don't think for a minute that you are engaged in WUMmery, but even you have to acknowledge how some could see it as such - this is an outrageous position you're taking up here. You're welcome to it, btw, but it is outrageous all the same.

[TheManFromFerbane]

I'm here to talk about offaly gaa
your here to talk about me.

Plenty of forums out there for apes like you.
Why not try and post something related to Offaly GAA, i doubt you be able.

There was plenty of Offaly GAA talk before you or I joined the forum so I don't know where that's coming from.

I don't know nor claim to know enough about Offaly Hurling to disagree or agree with your points as I am merely a very interested observer on Offaly Hurling but I reckon if you lay off the personal stuff no one would have any with you.

The one thing I do think I have some knowledge on is the mentality of players and from this point of view I can see where you're coming from regarding the respect situation. Due to his reputation, either just or unjust, I think its going to be very hard for JP to command the type of respect from the players that is needed when it comes to training or the sacrifices that must be made by your average run-of-the-mill hurler, of which JT was not.

[Bord na Mona man]

Again OF, you tend to lose the value of your points by use of language.
Using phrases like "absolute joke", "never showed any respect for the Offaly jersey"
"showed no loyalty to Offaly", "embarrasment when it comes to hurling", "did not give a shite about Offaly hurling". If JP was any of those, he would never have pulled on an Offaly jersey.

A valid topic of discussion then becomes lost in a mire of ridiculous overstatements.
If the debate was not put in such absolute black and white terms, then it might go somewhere.
It would be a good topic of debate about JP, whether there was more in him, or was he all the better for his more laid back approach.
Or whether a player brings their playing attributes into their coaching. For example George Graham was a real Champagne Charlie as a player, but a tough coach

Some sort of grey area would be nice rather than absolutes: he can coach/he can't coach, he can hurl/he can't hurl, he knows what he's at/he is clueless etc.

[Offalys Future]

gggggggggggggggg

[The Magpie]

Again OF, you tend to lose the value of your points by use of language.
Using phrases like "absolute joke", "never showed any respect for the Offaly jersey"
"showed no loyalty to Offaly", "embarrasment when it comes to hurling", "did not give a shite about Offaly hurling". If JP was any of those, he would never have pulled on an Offaly jersey.

A valid topic of discussion then becomes lost in a mire of ridiculous overstatements.
If the debate was not put in such absolute black and white terms, then it might go somewhere.
It would be a good topic of debate about JP, whether there was more in him, or was he all the better for his more laid back approach.
Or whether a player brings their playing attributes into their coaching. For example George Graham was a real Champagne Charlie as a player, but a tough coach

Some sort of grey area would be nice rather than absolutes: he can coach/he can't coach, he can hurl/he can't hurl, he knows what he's at/he is clueless etc.

I tend to agree with a lot of what BNMM has said here. OF has made some points that I can't entirely disagree with - but maybe he's used the wrong language. Personal stuff aside (which we can all do without), you all have to decide if you don't like what he's saying, or you don't like the way he's saying it. I think everybody is tuned in to the point that he's trying to make - maybe he's just making it rather harshly.

My opinion on JP is this. He was a super hurler and a great competitor, but as MFF has said, whether he earned his reputation or not, it is undeniable that he has it. Based on this, he probably wouldn't be my first choice. However, I do think he will command a certain amount of respect and it's good to see him involved.

[Offalys Future]

gggggggggggg

[The Magpie]

Right here is my solution.

7. Padraig Horan
Not my biggest fan, but nobody can question his passion and love of Offaly Gaa. If he was willing to take a role similar to Ger Coughlan I think he would be a big help.

A typo? Or a freudian slip perhaps, revelaing to us that OF mixes in elite circles

Some good ideas OF...and nothing enormously controversial. I don't think quite so many people will disagree with this post. I think at 200 you're being a little optimistic with regard to numbers. Also, grouping the players based on ability - I can see the logic, but it does tend to marginalize children.

[Dingle]

Dingle, I agree completely that dropping to Christy Ring level in the coming years is plausible. However to look at it another way, what right have we to expect to be top flight? You say it like our current set up is a joke, but right now the only counties that are better than us in hurling have bigger populations and are hurling counties first - we are where we should be, more or less. (Not including Galway or Cork who are big enough to sustain two high level sports) I'm not saying we should concede on these grounds or anything, but let's have realistic expectations here. Secondly, Wexford are no better than us at minor level. They beat us this year after a replay, but the record of both counties in recent years is abysmal. KK and the Dubs are way ahead, granted, but after that we're as good as anyone else.

Since you agree with OF's views, how about you take the extra step he never does - what would you do? OF tends to use grandiose statements about how everything is rotten to the core, and that we should spend fortunes we don't have on big name managers and several full time coaches, while also denigrating the existing coaches we have. With the personnel and budget that currently exists, what would you do? (This is not meant to be facetious, but endless complaints about the status quo without a plausible altenative are nothing but wind in my view)

I dont have much time to reply in detail but I say the following.
Frankly, your attitude stinks of a loser mentality. You make every excuse under the sun for Offaly's hurling woes. Offaly were possibly the most consistent senior intercounty for 2 decades and two generation of players. Thats were the bar was set and thats where we should aspire to. We should demand high standards not excuses. Having a small population base has distinct advantages when Offaly are organised and well run. Having a small population base and being a disorganised shambles is a recipe for disaster and we are now seeing. We should have a top class coaching/developmental structures in place to produce competitve underage sides and potential senior players consistently. We dont.
This all comes to the a culture difference. In Kilkenny/Cork sucess is demanded/craved. In Offaly we simply dont deserve success because we dont want bad enough.

wtr to Wexford. WEXFORD have George O Connor employed fulltime to the promotion of hurling. He has overseen a complete over haul of underage hurling structures. If their supporters website is accurate Wexford underage sides are training 50 odd times a season. Their underage performances have skyrocketed and have won AllIre U16/14 in the past two seasons. Expect, from the coming season on, the minor sides to improve dramatically.

i have repeatedly asked for someone to outline exactly what is being done wrt underage hurling in the county. No answers so far, which leads me to beleieve that its not pretty. Maybe some would outline just what is being done.

[Offalys Future]

ggggggggggggg

[azoffaly]

Offaly's Future,

As someone who generally just reads your posts and throws their eyes to heaven because of the 'He's sh1te', 'They're muck' nature of them, I'd just like to say that I think that your acadamy idea above is a brilliant one. Fair play to you.

A couple of things though, I don't know if you have thought of these or not.

1) What about club training/games? I remember in my dark and distant past that at under 14/16/Minor level you were usually involved in at least 2 teams, and probably up to 6 or 8 with the schools. I presume these acadamy sessions would have to be 'blackout' times for club and school games?

2) Cost. How much would we need to put aside to pay the 8 acadamy staff, plus any hangers on? Are we talking a hundred grand here? I'm not saying it wouldn't be a worthwhile investment, but just wondering what the scale of that investment would be.

[Kevin]

Agreement here. Nice job OF!

[The Rover]

OF, your post has sparked an interesting debate. In general I have found your posts have brought an extra breadth and dimension to this board. This is partly based on on your willingness to challenge conventional wisdom, write it as you think it and avoid the sanctuary of consensus. As a result you have had to fight some lonely battles with your critics but you have come through well.

I also don‘t know Johnny Pilkington but from what I have read suspect he may bring some of the unconventional qualities you posess to the job. That may not necessarily be a bad thing. He‘s now the manager and needs our support. He‘s starting from zero and desrves the chance to prove himself. He needs to set out the targets he intends to achieve and then he can be measured against these. Let‘s hope he‘s successful and the Offaly minors of 2008 bring us the pleasure the minors of the 80‘s, Johnny Pilkington included, brought us.

[Bord na Mona man]

The blueprint looks good in theory. However 200 hurlers looks too many to me. In a county with such a low birthrate as Offaly's, you would be going very far down the pecking order of talent.
The coaches' time would be spread too thinly, working with players who are struggling with the basics, rather than maximising the potential of the very promising players. Cruel as it may sound, but the less talented players would be more at home training with their clubs.

I know from talking to coaches of other academies, that even with smaller groups, a big challenge is to learn every player's name, style, strengths, weaknesses and gauge their character too. It's made even tougher when every player is wearing a helmet!

The 8 descriptions mentioned are the type of fellows who would be needed. Whether the names mentioned match the description is neither here nor there, but certainly a good mix would be required.

There would also need to be an overall co-ordinator/manager too, to oversee the whole thing. Someone who will monitor progress and have an overall vision of where we want to be in future. Someone to track every player's progress and know when to cull and replace if needed. To manage the coaching being done and make adjustments where needed.

There would a good bit of administration involved, that would required funding and people time too.

[midfield]

Good Ideas there OF.

Just a few questions - Where would you have the Academies and how would you organise transport. Many of the academies are run at the moment but not too many parents want to give up their saturdays to drive their kids to the academies. If the county board is to pay for buses, this could cost a fortune. Maybe 300e at least every week

Four hours every saturday might be a bit much and the enthuaism of players and parents could fizzle out.

Seems good ideas , but you are talking serious money to get the people that you suggested. Most of them are already involved in coaching in club teams.