Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
faithfulfanatic
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by faithfulfanatic »

Anonymous1 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:57 am
How the mighty have fallen, celebrating a draw against 13 man Wexford. Some of our heroes from the past would be turning in their graves.
How dare you.
Our heroes from the past would be as proud of this county as they were on any big day.
That's what being a real supporter and Gael is.

Not fligning sh1t online like you.

Anonymous1
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by Anonymous1 »

faithfulfanatic wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:12 am
Anonymous1 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:57 am
How the mighty have fallen, celebrating a draw against 13 man Wexford. Some of our heroes from the past would be turning in their graves.
How dare you.
Our heroes from the past would be as proud of this county as they were on any big day.
That's what being a real supporter and Gael is.

Not fligning sh1t online like you.
Proud of the players 100%, not of supporters getting giddy after a draw.

Both Sampson and Kiely were very keen to get that message across post game, a draw against 13 men isn’t anything to be celebrated.

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Anonymous1 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:38 am
private joker wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:28 pm The westmeath/wexford result was a freak of nature. A once never to happen again result. Anyone who can't see progress is fair blind. Offaly look fit, can stick with teams for longer. Good level of skill. It wasn't that long ago offaly were loosing to Down.
Comparing this team to the worst Offaly team we’ve ever had is obviously going to make it look good. Why not compare us to our 2018 team that beat both Dublin and Antrim in the league? Wouldn’t fit the narrative I suppose…
Only 3 of the 20 players that played against Dublin in 2018 played against Wexford on Saturday. You might as well be comparing them to teams of the '80s or '90s at this rate.

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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by Anonymous1 »

Bord na Mona man wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:21 pm
Anonymous1 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:38 am
private joker wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:28 pm The westmeath/wexford result was a freak of nature. A once never to happen again result. Anyone who can't see progress is fair blind. Offaly look fit, can stick with teams for longer. Good level of skill. It wasn't that long ago offaly were loosing to Down.
Comparing this team to the worst Offaly team we’ve ever had is obviously going to make it look good. Why not compare us to our 2018 team that beat both Dublin and Antrim in the league? Wouldn’t fit the narrative I suppose…
Only 3 of the 20 players that played against Dublin in 2018 played against Wexford on Saturday. You might as well be comparing them to teams of the '80s or '90s at this rate.
I’m aware of that, my point is that we fell so far down the pecking order under Fennelly that it was impossible not to see some level of improvement but that shouldn’t be what we benchmark ourselves against. We’ve a long road to go yet.

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by Fairplayalways »

Ill call for calm here, ffs we were competitive in our first two games, taking a point after a good performance (13 men or not Wexford
with 14 men drew with Kilkenny the week before too no one is mentioning)...going to games or not is drilling too far in ways, some here seem to be able to go to all or many, some including myself cannot unfortunately for family and other reasons..that doesnt mean we are not upto speed or not knowledgeable on the topics, we do follow up and read up etc..I know more than many i do have Gaa chats with and they would be frequent match goers..fair to them they take different views home from games they attend, i hear their views and read up my own, all i have then is my opinion..it doesnt mean i way more or less qualified to comment on here or other platforms...we need to chill and be fair and open minded, personally i haven't seen the bite i seen over last 2 games, one attended, one on tv, the bite in many years Offaly showed..its a huge improvement from where we were...ill take that for now and on we go...

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Bord na Mona man
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by Bord na Mona man »

Anonymous1 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:38 pm
Bord na Mona man wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 1:21 pm
Anonymous1 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:38 am

Comparing this team to the worst Offaly team we’ve ever had is obviously going to make it look good. Why not compare us to our 2018 team that beat both Dublin and Antrim in the league? Wouldn’t fit the narrative I suppose…
Only 3 of the 20 players that played against Dublin in 2018 played against Wexford on Saturday. You might as well be comparing them to teams of the '80s or '90s at this rate.
I’m aware of that, my point is that we fell so far down the pecking order under Fennelly that it was impossible not to see some level of improvement but that shouldn’t be what we benchmark ourselves against. We’ve a long road to go yet.
When Fennelly took over, Offaly had just gone through 2 consecutive relegations. First Leinster, then Joe McDonagh, to land in Christy Ring.

The Dublin league game of 2018 needs to be put in context. Dublin played a very experimental team that night with several fellas who were long gone by the summer. When the sides met in Championship, Dublin won by 17 points.

Senior players like Joe Bergin, Colin Egan, Daniel Currams and Conor Mahon also finished their county careers around this time.
As is the case in each chapter of Offaly's decline, the next set who replaced them weren't as strong.

It's now 30 years since Offaly's underage production line started to fail. And then we had a 20 year streak of 'new lows' and 'rock bottoms'.

I'll happily take upward progress and acknowledge it, instead of cribbing about it not being enough, and being ready to crow as soon as a bad result occurs. Which I'm sure you will triumphantly do...

Fairplayalways
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by Fairplayalways »

well said..

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joe bloggs
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by joe bloggs »

The decline of Offaly hurling was not in a straight line.
There were ups and downs all the way. The first major down for me was the cats in Croke Park in 05 I think it was. However we were able to defeata Limerick team in the Gaelic grounds a few years later and they had contested an All Ireland final.
We were also able to defeat a Wexford team in the Leinster championship in Tullamore around 2013, but all the time our stock was tumbling.
Any return back to somewhere near the top table will not be in a straight line either. There will be ups and downs too. We saw that last season, winning the league and being pipped in the championship by Carlow. Hopefully this year we will make that step forward in the championship, and with next year mainta slot in the new Division 1B.
'if your not part of the solution, your part of the problem' J. McClean

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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by biffinbanner »

the game i was most despondent about after 2000 was the 2004 leinster final v wexford. we really should have beat a damien fitzhenry inspired wexford that day. it was hard to take.

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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by greenairfield »

I think it's fair to say signs of improvement but we are still certainly only 70 minutes away from a heavy defeat to bring us back down to earth.
Wexford were shocking and missing a heap but we gave them socks of it that's all you can ask.

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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by bracknaghboy »

Whoa, whoa lads come on now put the handbags down and read a mature balanced assessment of the situation :D

So some posters think there is progress being made and others think that's not really the case.
I think everyone can agree (in fact it's undeniable) that huge strides have been made at underage level with 2 Leinster's and 2 All Ireland finals participated in the space of 12 months. Now this year is absolutely massive for the U20's, there is pressure on them to back it up again lets not pretend otherwise. Lets see how they handle it.

Right back to the senior team. See, you can cherry pick data, games, portions of games, comparisons of teams, draw lines through opposition results etc. etc. until the cows come home to help back up the claim you are trying to make regardless what side of the fence you are on.
Take the Waterford game (which I think was a spirited 70min + effort from the lads), say Waterford had got one of the goals near the end where they tried to walk the ball into the net........see now you are dealing with a 15 point deficit which makes it harder to put a good gloss on even though it's only an extra puck of the ball and wouldn't change the overall Offaly effort throughout the match.

Take the the Tipp game last summer when the record books where send flying out the window. If the teams met again this summer and the 32 point margin was trimmed to 20.....that's a big difference but could we really be claiming massive progress is being made based on that? All these games take on a life of their own so comparisons are hard made.

Since someone mentioned the 2018 team and the win against Dublin, are we all forgetting that Offaly ran a star studded
Kilkenny to 2 points in Tullamore that year in the league quarter final? Aul Brian Cody aged another 10 years that afternoon. Still any of us in the know were still fairly certain relegation to Joe McDonagh was more or less inevitable 3 months later. So taking one off results here and there during the league and drawing conclusions is a dangerous business.

So how do we measure the progress of the seniors?
For me this is the easy bit......it's simple, it's the Joe McDonagh Cup.
How will they fare against an angry Laois, a Westmeath team that have Kilkenny to blame for their relegation having beat Wexford in the wildest of all wild games down there (having drawn with them 12 months earlier in Mullingar), and throw in the the usual awkward visit up north to Ballycran? I'd be expecting if real progress is and has been made then Offaly will find a way to get over the line this year against these teams and finally get out the Joe Mc.

Offaly will move up a level when you could say with confidence that they'd beat Carlow, Laois, Westmeath, Kerry etc. 4 out of every 5 times they'd meet each team. Then and only then could we look to beating and replacing Dublin and/or Wexford in Leinster and being competitive here and there against the other teams.
Thats the bar for me. As long as the games against Carlow, Laois, Westmeath etc. remain 50/50 games then no real breakthrough can be made and no amount of cherry picking data and comparing results will change that.

I patiently await a barrage of abuse :D
Last edited by bracknaghboy on Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bracknaghboy
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by bracknaghboy »

private joker wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:28 pm The westmeath/wexford result was a freak of nature. A once never to happen again result.
Hmmm. Just to point out that Wexford and Westmeath drew in Leinster in Mullingar in 2022 after a tit for tat battle.
Then in 2023 when they met in Wexford Park, Wexford hammered Westmeath for 35 minutes and then Westmeath hammered Wexford for the next 35 minutes and it also ended in a draw.

Whatever it is about these 2, but I wouldn't be putting my private yacht on Wexford prevailing if the 2 teams happened to meet in Mullingar say in an All Ireland preliminary quarter final in June.

The point I'm making is that I dispute your claim that the draw in Wexford park was "a once never to happen again result" when they drew 12 months previous in the championship as well. Obviously Westmeaths performances are erratic to say the least but Wexford have failed to beat them in 2 championship attempts in 12 months.

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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by jimbob17 »

Some over reactions here are most amusing. We need perspective. We are a work in progress. Couple of young lads getting blooded. Main priority for them should be retaining Leinster U20. That will not be easy.

Re seniors, Waterford was a solid performance that we faded in for last 10 mins or so. To get a draw in Wexford is a huge lift on where weve been for last 5 years or so. No the challenge is to back it up with more good performances. By all accounts, lads have trained very hard. Lets hope we keep closing the gap. It is in 2 to 3 years time we will see the fruits of the good underage teams but lets say this here, it is a big jump from U20 to senior and the two teams that won Leinster probably had 10 or 11 of same lads.

Beyond that, Kelly has to have really good idea at this stage. He is probably in his 5th year with co senior team in that he did 3 years as coach before becoming manager. When that team in 18 got relegated, there was a choice to be made re players in Christy Ring. Fennellly chose to introduce a load of young lads and get the culture right with them to win Christy Ring and build them up. Kelly is getting the fruits of that work now with likes of Ciaran Burke, Killian Sampson, Brian Duignan, Eoin Cahill (as outfielder), Eimhin Kelly, Ross Ravenhill among many others getting blooded into senior. Their development has really shown over this time to be some of our main players now. With the influx of more young players to back this up and with likes of Cillian Kiely (reigniting his love for the game), Ben Conneely and David King still going strong, we have a good spread of youth and experience as we progress. We just came up short last year against a good Carlow team. I think this may stand to us. If we win Joe Mac this year or next year, it'll be 25 or 26 before we get back up to Liam McCarthy. This will give our young players the chance to get to the level of S&C to have some chance of competing at senior level.

To be honest, a lot of good work has gone on at underage and adult level and our standards of preparation now are light years ahead of where they were in 2017/2018 when we dropped through the floor. Does that guarantee success, absolutely not, but if we do this consistently across time we will produce the talent to compete at the top level in time hopefully. That is all we can expect for now!
jimbob

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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by Anonymous1 »

:cry:
bracknaghboy wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:15 pm Whoa, whoa lads come on now put the handbags down and read a mature balanced assessment of the situation :D

So some posters think there is progress being made and others think that's not really the case.
I think everyone can agree (in fact it's undeniable) that huge strides have been made at underage level with 2 Leinster's and 2 All Ireland finals participated in the space of 12 months. Now this year is absolutely massive for the U20's, there is pressure on them to back it up again lets not pretend otherwise. Lets see how they handle it.

Right back to the senior team. See, you can cherry pick data, games, portions of games, comparisons of teams, draw lines through opposition results etc. etc. until the cows come home to help back up the claim you are trying to make regardless what side of the fence you are on.
Take the Waterford game (which I think was a spirited 70min + effort from the lads), say Waterford had got one of the goals near the end where they tried to walk the ball into the net........see now you are dealing with a 15 point deficit which makes it harder to put a good gloss on even though it's only an extra puck of the ball and wouldn't change the overall Offaly effort throughout the match.

Take the the Tipp game last summer when the record books where send flying out the window. If the teams met again this summer and the 32 point margin was trimmed to 20.....that's a big difference but could we really be claiming massive progress is being made based on that? All these games take on a life of their own so comparisons are hard made.

Since someone mentioned the 2018 team and the win against Dublin, are we all forgetting that Offaly ran a star studded
Kilkenny to 2 points in Tullamore that year in the league quarter final? Aul Brian Cody aged another 10 years that afternoon. Still any of us in the know were still fairly certain relegation to Joe McDonagh was more or less inevitable 3 months later. So taking one off results here and there during the league and drawing conclusions is a dangerous business.

So how do we measure the progress of the seniors?
For me this is the easy bit......it's simple, it's the Joe McDonagh Cup.
How will they fare against an angry Laois, a Westmeath team that have Kilkenny to blame for their relegation having beat Wexford in the wildest of all wild games down there (having drawn with them 12 months earlier in Mullingar), and throw in the the usual awkward visit up north to Ballycran? I'd be expecting if real progress is and has been made then Offaly will find a way to get over the line this year against these teams and finally get out the Joe Mc.

Offaly will move up a level when you could say with confidence that they'd beat Carlow, Laois, Westmeath, Kerry etc. 4 out of every 5 times they'd meet each team. Then and only then could we look to beating and replacing Dublin and/or Wexford in Leinster and being competitive here and there against the other teams.
Thats the bar for me. As long as the games against Carlow, Laois, Westmeath etc. remain 50/50 games then no real breakthrough can be made and no amount of cherry picking data and comparing results will change that.

I patiently await a barrage of abuse :D
I agree with all of this.

Nobody would argue with the progress being made at underage level, it’s the same with our footballers but hasn’t and doesn’t seem like it’s going to translate to the Senior football team.

Whether we’re being beat by 25 points against the top teams or 15 doesn’t really make any odds, the point is we’re not competitive so as you say the only fair measure is how we fare in the Joe Mcdonagh and if as most posters claim here, we’ve made progress then the only logical conclusion you can draw from that is we should sail through the Joe Mcdonagh this year yet I don’t see anyone claiming that.

Anonymous1
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Re: Offaly Senior Hurlers 2024

Post by Anonymous1 »

bracknaghboy wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:29 pm
private joker wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:28 pm The westmeath/wexford result was a freak of nature. A once never to happen again result.
Hmmm. Just to point out that Wexford and Westmeath drew in Leinster in Mullingar in 2022 after a tit for tat battle.
Then in 2023 when they met in Wexford Park, Wexford hammered Westmeath for 35 minutes and then Westmeath hammered Wexford for the next 35 minutes and it also ended in a draw.

Whatever it is about these 2, but I wouldn't be putting my private yacht on Wexford prevailing if the 2 teams happened to meet in Mullingar say in an All Ireland preliminary quarter final in June.

The point I'm making is that I dispute your claim that the draw in Wexford park was "a once never to happen again result" when they drew 12 months previous in the championship as well. Obviously Westmeaths performances are erratic to say the least but Wexford have failed to beat them in 2 championship attempts in 12 months.
The reality is Wexford hurling has fallen a long way in the past few years. They were Leinster champions in 2019 but deserved to be relegated last year so Wexford falling off in quality doesn’t by default mean Offaly have made progress, it just means Wexford have come back to the middle pack of teams (Westmeath, Antrim, Carlow) etc instead of being considered a top team.

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