Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

A forum to air your views on Offaly GAA matters and beyond.
Anonymous1
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:10 pm

Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by Anonymous1 »

jimbob17 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:25 pm
Anonymous1 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 5:54 pm
Bord na Mona man wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:29 pm Fully agree with Jimbob. There have been lots of years in the last 15 years where Offaly have been in the top 3 or 4 teams in Leinster at minor and U20/21.

Dublin are the only county significantly better than us in that time. Kildare and Meath a fraction better, but always beatable by a strong Offaly team.

Leix, Louth, Westmeath, Longford, Carlow, Wexford, Wicklow etc have produced less than Offaly at underage in that era.

Yet at senior level these are all counties that we play against with very little confidence and are delighted to scrape any sort of win.
Weren't we in the top 4 in Leinster last year and a kick of a ball from being in the top two?

Didn't we beat Meath en route to that top 4?

Didn't we get out of division 3 in 2021, come within a whisker of staying in division 2 in 2022 and go into the final day last year with a chance of promotion?

It's not like we've been a million miles away from what ye have been describing, those results at senior fairly match what was achieved by those same groups of players at underage.

That's our level, a top half division 3 team that may or may not win a game or two in Leinster in a given year depending on the draw.

To suggest that we've been vastly underachieving our talent pool is patently false and the truth is that a lot of stalwarts from this group of players have brought us as far as they can go. To think that rehashing the same players with a handful of U20s thrown in is going to have us competing to win Leinster and a solid division 2 team is nonsense.

What's needed is a route and branch clear out with only the best players from past panels kept on and an injection of young players. Sure there'll be short term pain and we may even face the prospect of relegation this coming year but to continue flogging the same 15-20 players is to repeat the same mistakes of the past. It's nothing short of a sticking plaster that never leads us where we want to go while simultaneously denying young players game time, having them lose interest and ultimately give up. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

And in order for this to succeed, Kelly needs to be giving assurance that regardless of results this year, the county will stick by him to see this project out.

The truth is we can't get much worse than we have been for the last 20 years but we can get a hell of a lot better.

Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.
Couldnt disagree anymore with this sentiment. This isn't about management or their success. This is about players showing ambition and matching it with application to fulfill their potential. It hasnt been happening. Way too many stories of players drinking and 'inappropriately preparing' for way too long.

In Div 2, we drew with a poor Meath team by their standards and beat a weak Down team that was short any amount of players and who were well beaten in all of their games. Most of the other games, apart from maybe Cork, we were not competitive. Granted, we got there but we should not be getting hammered by likes of Roscommon and Clare. Derry were the best team in it to be fair going as they did afterwards.

Short term pain for long term gain as far as I am concerned is absolute horsesh*t. You pick your best team now for now. To win now. Why would we be waiting for U20s to come through? They are 23 next year. We shouldnt be waiting. Like we said before, they are not the only group that showed promise. We have had plenty of teams over last 10 years and all we need is the best 3 or 4 players from each team to form a really strong panel. We shouldnt be clearing out lads for sake of it. Hogan took while to adjust to senior but is now one of our key defenders and captain last year. Anton Sullivan, Peter Cunningham, Eoin Rigney, Dylan Hyland, Jordan Hayes, David Dempsey, Bernard Allen, Ruairi McNamee, Ian Duffy, Cian Farrell and possibly couple more, are all in the 25 - 31 age bracket and in their prime. They are 10 or 11 lads that will likely contribute 8 or so to start on a given day. Flood in a few 20 - 25 year olds and sure thats our best 15. 2 of them in Pearson and Ruairi Egan are also surely part of a starting 15, all things being right. A number of the All Ireland U20 team will never be good enough for senior football no matter how long you wait or talk about them - that is a simple fact. Some have gone off the boil already due to unhelpful extra curricular activities. That success was of its time and it was great but lets have some perspective here - it was an age grade team that happened to win. When other counties win these things (Down Derry Dublin Kildare for example), only a couple from each make it up to senior grade. How many have Roscommon brought up to senior may I ask. I don't know but Id imagine no more than 6 or 7 to the senior panel at the most. Why should we be any different.

Some of those older lads listed above were also prodigious at underage too and are possibly more talented than most of that U20 team. I'll be honest, the best of that U20 All Ireland winning team, excluding Ruairi Egan, Cathal Donoghue and Pearson were probably the minor lads who are still U20 in 2023 and they'd have won nothing without likes of Cormac Egan, John Furlong, Keith O Neill and one or two more coming into the team after minors were beaten.

There is also a core of lads at 23-25 or so also that Kelly would have had at U20 level in previous years that may also be as good or better than some of the U20 winning team - thinking of lads like Jack O'Brien and Shane Tierney who both played in a Sigerson final only 2 years ago and have since featured at senior level for the county. There are others too in this age cohort I cant just think of at the minute.

For too long, various managers threw out the baby with the bathwater and tried to start from scratch. It failed every time, going one step forwards and two steps backwards. We cant keep making the same mistakes as you are suggesting and rehashing and blending in the best young players with some experienced and physically imposing seniors is exactly what we need. There is a level of strength and fitness needed that most of that U20 team are not even close to from what I saw in club championship. Will they ever get there? I don't know to be honest but they need to apply themselves and most havent been doing it or showing it at club level.

In fact, I struggle to see any of that U20 team that stood out in club senior championship since, aside from John Furlong this year and possibly Pearson and Egan in other years. We need to firstly know our best 25 or 30 players at senior level and then use our best 20 consistently in an organised set up. I'd be confident Kelly knows the lads to pick and the ones to leave at home from the older experienced group. And if he does, and the players apply themselves as a squad (when they havent in the past to level required), then we will make progress.

To suggest that top of Div 3 is our level is simply showing a gross lack of ambition and makes excuses for lads before we even start. If likes of Louth, Limerick Roscommon, Clare and Monaghan .can go and further themselves at a higher level by simply buying into a process of application and improvement with less or similar levels of talent, then so should we expect more from our players. To even countenance relegation as means of short term gain is absolutely ridiculous and taking the mickey in my opinion. I think and hope at least that Kelly and his management team would also be of the same opinion.

The players are in Offaly to compete at least mid div 2. The very least we should be in Div 3 is top 4 in my opinion. To be fair we've been doing that to large degree for last 2 or 3 years (under Maughan's last 2 years) when there were significant issues that went mostly unreported and brushed under the carpet and also with Kearns in what was a decent league display - so top 4 is just break even point as far as i'd be concerned.

So to the players and followers, the groundwork and base of underage success has never been as rich in the last 20 years. We have had a good base of S&C through underage programmes through Dave Hare and his replacements over last 10 years so that base has been mostly covered! So its time to stop making excuses and go and maximise the capability of senior team. You only get so long in that jersey and deselection and injury may only be just around the corner for some, so its in your interest to give it everything and see where it goes.

I'm quietly confident that if this happens that we will be in for a good couple of years ahead and much needed progress will be made at senior level.
You seriously think "showing ambition and matching it with application to fulfill their potential" is the solution to all of our problems? Jeez why didn't anybody else think of this?

I don't know of any player in recent times who has been drinking, that seems like a rather lazy attempt at having a pop at the team.

In Div 2, Meath needed a last second hail mary goal to steal a draw against us and we had a brilliant win up in Newry while we led Cork by 2 points deep into injury time on the final day.

"We should not be getting hammered by the likes of Roscommon and Clare" Two teams that have been consistently in DIv 2 and even in and out of Div 1 and have made All Ireland QF's? I don't know where your arrogance is coming from but Offaly haven't been on that level for 20 years.

"You pick your best team now for now. To win now." Haven't we been doing exactly this for the past number of years? How's that worked out? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Who said we should be waiting for U20's to come through? We need to start blooding them right now or as I said they'll lose interest and throw in the towel, it's happened too often in the past, we can all name players who should've, could've or would've been good players for us but were held back and then we never hear of them again. We have a once in a generation group of players and if we let them go to waste we'll be down in Division 4 for the foreseeable future.

You named 10 of our best players there, we need every one of them but it's the other 20 spots on the panel that shouldn't be going to lads who've already had two or three chances under previous managers and either fallen out or walked away nor should they be going to lads who are just happy to be there to make up the numbers. We need to give as many young players as possible the chance and they'll either sink or swim on their merits but blocking their development has been proven to be a losing strategy.

I agree a number of the U20 All Ireland won't be good enough to make it but how on earth are we supposed to tell which ones will and which ones won't if they don't get given a chance?

Could you clarify who and what you mean by "extra curricular activities" Again this seems like you're having an unnecessary pop at players.

Roscommon have brought a good few more of their 2021 U20s through than we have and that was into a team with a lot more talent at their disposal than we have.

I don't think there are that many in the 23-25 age group but that's exactly my point, why should we give those a second or third crack at the whip instead of a first chance to an All Ireland winner?

"For too long, various managers threw out the baby with the bathwater and tried to start from scratch." Name me one manager who did that?

"Rehashing and blending in the best young players with some experienced and physically imposing seniors" This is precisely what I'm advocating for.

"We need to firstly know our best 25 or 30 players at senior level", why do you think it is that we don't know our best 25 or 30? Hardly because we haven't seen most of the younger ones play yet? You've totally contradicted yourself there.

"I'd be confident Kelly knows the lads to pick and the ones to leave at home" I'd be confident he doesn't have a clue until he sees them in action at a level they've not played at before and with teammates they've never played with before.

"To suggest that top of Div 3 is our level is simply showing a gross lack of ambition and makes excuses for lads before we even start." Actually it's a dose of reality given we've only been higher for a brief period in the last 20 years and have been a lot lower... To say the likes of Monaghan have less or similar levels of talent than Offaly is laughable, when was the last time we made an All Ireland semi final?

On the one hand you're saying we've not been good enough in recent years and on the other you're advocating for us to keep the exact same players but just "buy into the process" and that'll deliver us to Division 1 and All Ireland semis? Give me a break.

"To even countenance relegation as means of short term gain is absolutely ridiculous" Kelly himself has said Division 3 will be a dogfight and if one or two results go against them they could be in relegation and that's the same way it's been for a number of years and I'm not sure why you think we have some sort of divine right not to be in a relegation scrap?

"Under Maughan's last 2 years when there were significant issues that went mostly unreported and brushed under the carpet" What exactly were those?

"The groundwork and base of underage success has never been as rich in the last 20 years." One minute most of the U20's aren't good enough and the next we have the richest underage we've had in 20 years? Your views change quicker than the weather. I'd argue the 20 years before this 20 were better and the 20 before that even better again.

I'm quietly confident that if this happens that we will be in for a good couple of years ahead and much needed progress will be made at senior level.

jimbob17
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Posts: 937
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:40 am

Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by jimbob17 »

Anonymous1 wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:58 pm
jimbob17 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:25 pm
Anonymous1 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 5:54 pm

Weren't we in the top 4 in Leinster last year and a kick of a ball from being in the top two?

Didn't we beat Meath en route to that top 4?

Didn't we get out of division 3 in 2021, come within a whisker of staying in division 2 in 2022 and go into the final day last year with a chance of promotion?

It's not like we've been a million miles away from what ye have been describing, those results at senior fairly match what was achieved by those same groups of players at underage.

That's our level, a top half division 3 team that may or may not win a game or two in Leinster in a given year depending on the draw.

To suggest that we've been vastly underachieving our talent pool is patently false and the truth is that a lot of stalwarts from this group of players have brought us as far as they can go. To think that rehashing the same players with a handful of U20s thrown in is going to have us competing to win Leinster and a solid division 2 team is nonsense.

What's needed is a route and branch clear out with only the best players from past panels kept on and an injection of young players. Sure there'll be short term pain and we may even face the prospect of relegation this coming year but to continue flogging the same 15-20 players is to repeat the same mistakes of the past. It's nothing short of a sticking plaster that never leads us where we want to go while simultaneously denying young players game time, having them lose interest and ultimately give up. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

And in order for this to succeed, Kelly needs to be giving assurance that regardless of results this year, the county will stick by him to see this project out.

The truth is we can't get much worse than we have been for the last 20 years but we can get a hell of a lot better.

Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.
Couldnt disagree anymore with this sentiment. This isn't about management or their success. This is about players showing ambition and matching it with application to fulfill their potential. It hasnt been happening. Way too many stories of players drinking and 'inappropriately preparing' for way too long.

In Div 2, we drew with a poor Meath team by their standards and beat a weak Down team that was short any amount of players and who were well beaten in all of their games. Most of the other games, apart from maybe Cork, we were not competitive. Granted, we got there but we should not be getting hammered by likes of Roscommon and Clare. Derry were the best team in it to be fair going as they did afterwards.

Short term pain for long term gain as far as I am concerned is absolute horsesh*t. You pick your best team now for now. To win now. Why would we be waiting for U20s to come through? They are 23 next year. We shouldnt be waiting. Like we said before, they are not the only group that showed promise. We have had plenty of teams over last 10 years and all we need is the best 3 or 4 players from each team to form a really strong panel. We shouldnt be clearing out lads for sake of it. Hogan took while to adjust to senior but is now one of our key defenders and captain last year. Anton Sullivan, Peter Cunningham, Eoin Rigney, Dylan Hyland, Jordan Hayes, David Dempsey, Bernard Allen, Ruairi McNamee, Ian Duffy, Cian Farrell and possibly couple more, are all in the 25 - 31 age bracket and in their prime. They are 10 or 11 lads that will likely contribute 8 or so to start on a given day. Flood in a few 20 - 25 year olds and sure thats our best 15. 2 of them in Pearson and Ruairi Egan are also surely part of a starting 15, all things being right. A number of the All Ireland U20 team will never be good enough for senior football no matter how long you wait or talk about them - that is a simple fact. Some have gone off the boil already due to unhelpful extra curricular activities. That success was of its time and it was great but lets have some perspective here - it was an age grade team that happened to win. When other counties win these things (Down Derry Dublin Kildare for example), only a couple from each make it up to senior grade. How many have Roscommon brought up to senior may I ask. I don't know but Id imagine no more than 6 or 7 to the senior panel at the most. Why should we be any different.

Some of those older lads listed above were also prodigious at underage too and are possibly more talented than most of that U20 team. I'll be honest, the best of that U20 All Ireland winning team, excluding Ruairi Egan, Cathal Donoghue and Pearson were probably the minor lads who are still U20 in 2023 and they'd have won nothing without likes of Cormac Egan, John Furlong, Keith O Neill and one or two more coming into the team after minors were beaten.

There is also a core of lads at 23-25 or so also that Kelly would have had at U20 level in previous years that may also be as good or better than some of the U20 winning team - thinking of lads like Jack O'Brien and Shane Tierney who both played in a Sigerson final only 2 years ago and have since featured at senior level for the county. There are others too in this age cohort I cant just think of at the minute.

For too long, various managers threw out the baby with the bathwater and tried to start from scratch. It failed every time, going one step forwards and two steps backwards. We cant keep making the same mistakes as you are suggesting and rehashing and blending in the best young players with some experienced and physically imposing seniors is exactly what we need. There is a level of strength and fitness needed that most of that U20 team are not even close to from what I saw in club championship. Will they ever get there? I don't know to be honest but they need to apply themselves and most havent been doing it or showing it at club level.

In fact, I struggle to see any of that U20 team that stood out in club senior championship since, aside from John Furlong this year and possibly Pearson and Egan in other years. We need to firstly know our best 25 or 30 players at senior level and then use our best 20 consistently in an organised set up. I'd be confident Kelly knows the lads to pick and the ones to leave at home from the older experienced group. And if he does, and the players apply themselves as a squad (when they havent in the past to level required), then we will make progress.

To suggest that top of Div 3 is our level is simply showing a gross lack of ambition and makes excuses for lads before we even start. If likes of Louth, Limerick Roscommon, Clare and Monaghan .can go and further themselves at a higher level by simply buying into a process of application and improvement with less or similar levels of talent, then so should we expect more from our players. To even countenance relegation as means of short term gain is absolutely ridiculous and taking the mickey in my opinion. I think and hope at least that Kelly and his management team would also be of the same opinion.

The players are in Offaly to compete at least mid div 2. The very least we should be in Div 3 is top 4 in my opinion. To be fair we've been doing that to large degree for last 2 or 3 years (under Maughan's last 2 years) when there were significant issues that went mostly unreported and brushed under the carpet and also with Kearns in what was a decent league display - so top 4 is just break even point as far as i'd be concerned.

So to the players and followers, the groundwork and base of underage success has never been as rich in the last 20 years. We have had a good base of S&C through underage programmes through Dave Hare and his replacements over last 10 years so that base has been mostly covered! So its time to stop making excuses and go and maximise the capability of senior team. You only get so long in that jersey and deselection and injury may only be just around the corner for some, so its in your interest to give it everything and see where it goes.

I'm quietly confident that if this happens that we will be in for a good couple of years ahead and much needed progress will be made at senior level.
You seriously think "showing ambition and matching it with application to fulfill their potential" is the solution to all of our problems? Jeez why didn't anybody else think of this?

I don't know of any player in recent times who has been drinking, that seems like a rather lazy attempt at having a pop at the team.

In Div 2, Meath needed a last second hail mary goal to steal a draw against us and we had a brilliant win up in Newry while we led Cork by 2 points deep into injury time on the final day.

"We should not be getting hammered by the likes of Roscommon and Clare" Two teams that have been consistently in DIv 2 and even in and out of Div 1 and have made All Ireland QF's? I don't know where your arrogance is coming from but Offaly haven't been on that level for 20 years.

"You pick your best team now for now. To win now." Haven't we been doing exactly this for the past number of years? How's that worked out? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Who said we should be waiting for U20's to come through? We need to start blooding them right now or as I said they'll lose interest and throw in the towel, it's happened too often in the past, we can all name players who should've, could've or would've been good players for us but were held back and then we never hear of them again. We have a once in a generation group of players and if we let them go to waste we'll be down in Division 4 for the foreseeable future.

You named 10 of our best players there, we need every one of them but it's the other 20 spots on the panel that shouldn't be going to lads who've already had two or three chances under previous managers and either fallen out or walked away nor should they be going to lads who are just happy to be there to make up the numbers. We need to give as many young players as possible the chance and they'll either sink or swim on their merits but blocking their development has been proven to be a losing strategy.

I agree a number of the U20 All Ireland won't be good enough to make it but how on earth are we supposed to tell which ones will and which ones won't if they don't get given a chance?

Could you clarify who and what you mean by "extra curricular activities" Again this seems like you're having an unnecessary pop at players.

Roscommon have brought a good few more of their 2021 U20s through than we have and that was into a team with a lot more talent at their disposal than we have.

I don't think there are that many in the 23-25 age group but that's exactly my point, why should we give those a second or third crack at the whip instead of a first chance to an All Ireland winner?

"For too long, various managers threw out the baby with the bathwater and tried to start from scratch." Name me one manager who did that?

"Rehashing and blending in the best young players with some experienced and physically imposing seniors" This is precisely what I'm advocating for.

"We need to firstly know our best 25 or 30 players at senior level", why do you think it is that we don't know our best 25 or 30? Hardly because we haven't seen most of the younger ones play yet? You've totally contradicted yourself there.

"I'd be confident Kelly knows the lads to pick and the ones to leave at home" I'd be confident he doesn't have a clue until he sees them in action at a level they've not played at before and with teammates they've never played with before.

"To suggest that top of Div 3 is our level is simply showing a gross lack of ambition and makes excuses for lads before we even start." Actually it's a dose of reality given we've only been higher for a brief period in the last 20 years and have been a lot lower... To say the likes of Monaghan have less or similar levels of talent than Offaly is laughable, when was the last time we made an All Ireland semi final?

On the one hand you're saying we've not been good enough in recent years and on the other you're advocating for us to keep the exact same players but just "buy into the process" and that'll deliver us to Division 1 and All Ireland semis? Give me a break.

"To even countenance relegation as means of short term gain is absolutely ridiculous" Kelly himself has said Division 3 will be a dogfight and if one or two results go against them they could be in relegation and that's the same way it's been for a number of years and I'm not sure why you think we have some sort of divine right not to be in a relegation scrap?

"Under Maughan's last 2 years when there were significant issues that went mostly unreported and brushed under the carpet" What exactly were those?

"The groundwork and base of underage success has never been as rich in the last 20 years." One minute most of the U20's aren't good enough and the next we have the richest underage we've had in 20 years? Your views change quicker than the weather. I'd argue the 20 years before this 20 were better and the 20 before that even better again.

I'm quietly confident that if this happens that we will be in for a good couple of years ahead and much needed progress will be made at senior level.
Where do I start.

My messaging couldnt be any clearer or consistent here.
Re throwing baby out. Sure where do I start? Pat Roe took a team that had been in Leinster Final in 06. He stripped it and had us in Div 4 from Div 1 in two seasons. He got rid of McManus among plenty othres who were brought back under later management. Emmet McDonnell took over on pretense he was going to change the world and bring in a wraft of underage players - including lads that won colleges A Leinster with Edenderry. The west of the county where there was lots of talent that had come through (James Coughlan, Trevor Phelan, James Rafferty, Thos Deehan, Kevin Lynam, J keane, Paul McConway etc) among numerous others got ignored and Look how that worked out. Baby and bathwater.

In stepped the likes if Richie Connor, who stayed only a short while and the player turnover was vast with experienced players wiped. No progress and another restart needed. Along the way, Ciaran Mc etc get asked back in and the level of flux is off the charts every year for 3 or 4 years while we remain on the floor.

Eventually Pat Flanagan takes reigns in 2014 and gets some team cohesion winning Div 4 with good style and decent team in comparison to what went before. We stabilised to large degree and were solid if not spectacular in Div 3 for couple of years after.

Then Wild Stephen Wallace takes over and upsets all that has gone before. He throws baby out with bathwater for want of better word and the whole thing goes pear shaped for years again. He did introduce some talent that is still there but between the Wallace stint and Rouse revival, there was a large enough fallout before before Maughan is asked to take over. Lets be honest, Maughan was fire fighting the first year and struggled to get 15 lads in for first 10 sessions. Eventually he gets a squad together but it is far from the best we had at the time. Over the few years with Maughan we got close to a decent squad in terms of talent available but we were never at full capacity in my opinion despite some good league results.

Kearns was moving in right direction bringing back the likes of Maher and Nigel Dunne among others who had not played in the 2 or 3 years previous.

And now we are where we are. What more can one say. Its been shambolic overall and the likes of good young players coming through have had to deal with way too much flux over last 10 years.

"Rehashing and blending in the best young players with some experienced and physically imposing seniors" [/b]This is precisely what I'm advocating for." - its what im also advocating for also - not doing as we did before and stripping panel every second year. Isnt it great we are on the same page on something!!!

Could you clarify who and what you mean by "extra curricular activities" Again this seems like you're having an unnecessary pop at players.
Unless you have your head in the sand, you will know what this means. It isnt unnecessary at all. It is a non negotiable for senior inter county players not to engage with certain behaviours. This isnt a pop, just a simple request that certain basic standards are adhered to. This forum is not the place to list such behaviours. If you are looking for clarification, perhaps ask some of the committed players or previous management.


"We should not be getting hammered by the likes of Roscommon and Clare" Two teams that have been consistently in DIv 2 and even in and out of Div 1 and have made All Ireland QF's? I don't know where your arrogance is coming from but Offaly haven't been on that level for 20 years.

Arrogance - Ah come on. Roscommon, Clare. I have been involved in co teams that beat these teams by 20 points in the past and im not exaggerating here. These arent world beaters. These are just teams that are trying and maxing their talent. The least we should be doing is matching or staying competitive with them. As the saying goes, dont put the pussy on a pedestal.

"We need to firstly know our best 25 or 30 players at senior level", why do you think it is that we don't know our best 25 or 30? Hardly because we haven't seen most of the younger ones play yet? You've totally contradicted yourself there.

How is this a contradiction? The point is quite clearly stated. The senior manager needs to know who he wants and needs. That is why he has been chosen to lead. Who from the U20s have shone in championship this year? Where is the contradiction? Is this not a reasonable thing to ask of a management team?

"I'd be confident Kelly knows the lads to pick and the ones to leave at home" I'd be confident he doesn't have a clue until he sees them in action at a level they've not played at before and with teammates they've never played with before.

Is this you showing lack of confidence in manager? If kelly deserves the job, he needs to know who is capable and who isnt. If he can't tell, then he has no place being manager. He is around it long enough. I believe he has a good idea and given his credentials, I think you should give him a bit more backing here....

"To suggest that top of Div 3 is our level is simply showing a gross lack of ambition and makes excuses for lads before we even start." Actually it's a dose of reality given we've only been higher for a brief period in the last 20 years and have been a lot lower... To say the likes of Monaghan have less or similar levels of talent than Offaly is laughable, when was the last time we made an All Ireland semi final?

Monaghan is one of the lowest populated counties in the country. 28th in fact by 2023 reports. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... population. They max out on their numbers and talent. We don't. Why is it that they max out and can compete in Div 1 and can reach a semi final? No more to say.

On the one hand you're saying we've not been good enough in recent years and on the other you're advocating for us to keep the exact same players but just "buy into the process" and that'll deliver us to Division 1 and All Ireland semis? Give me a break.

See point above. Ive said, we have the talent but have been under performing. Ive said keep the best players and not to throw baby out. Blend in the best younger players with best older players. Is that not common sense.

Do a bit of homework on level of buy in from some lads over last few years. The genuine good lads who have been doing it have not been overly enamoured with some of the efforts of their peers to say the least. The stories are vast and some of the players that have been involved have badly let themselves and the supporters down. Its not my place or appropriate to list issues on this forum - only it is important to say and serious players would agree that there have been some serious issues with some players levels of commitment in the last couple of years. It is not my fault if you are not fully abreast of the facts. Take a break if you need one!

"To even countenance relegation as means of short term gain is absolutely ridiculous" Kelly himself has said Division 3 will be a dogfight and if one or two results go against them they could be in relegation and that's the same way it's been for a number of years and I'm not sure why you think we have some sort of divine right not to be in a relegation scrap?

Im not saying we have a divine right. Kelly will say what he says to ease the pressure but im brave enough to say here and now, if we get relegated because we are 'blooding new players', then its a failure from the outset. That U20 group are 23 next year. They are not kids. They should expect something of themselves if there is anything in them. Most of our senior players have played and contested U20/21 or minor Leinster finals at least. We have a pool of talent that would be the envy of many counties in Leinster and it is a level of talent that hasnt been harnessed to achieve success at senior level.

I'm certainly not expecting us to win Leinster but I'd expect us to compete with every other county in Leinster and beat most outside of Dublin. The underage results tell us this is more than realistic - so what whats your problem with that? Do you want us to bask in the glory of Div 4 and celebrate mediocrity for the next 10 years like we did the last 10 years. To my mind, this type of attitude is exactly our problem and has permeated our senior squad for way too long.
jimbob

BiffoInThurso
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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by BiffoInThurso »

Have we any idea if there any new faces in around the panel, Shane Tierney looks to have moved to Oz for how long l don’t know…

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by TerraceTalk »

And a few more decent young footballers from around the county set to follow him out there so I’m told. The exodus of young people is frightening, you’d worry for the smaller clubs, never mind the county.

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by BiffoInThurso »

Seems to be a few of them back at it already, I know some of the faces there but can anyone advise of who all the lads are in the pic? Cathal Flynn looks to be involved this yeae.

PS the pic is taken from a public social media page so its not been lifted from anywhere private or confidential
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Hyper
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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by Hyper »

Kevin Mcdermot
Dec hogan
Nathan Poland
Jack Byrant
Cathal Flynn
Morgan tynan
Dylan Hyland
Nigel dunne
Eoin Carroll
Panda
Jack o Brien
David Dempsey

BiffoInThurso
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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by BiffoInThurso »

Thanks!

Have O Brien , Mcdermott and Poland been involved at senior before, would they be much of an addition or similar enough to whats been involved before?

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by del »

BiffoInThurso wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:43 pm Thanks!

Have O Brien , Mcdermott and Poland been involved at senior before, would they be much of an addition or similar enough to whats been involved before?
poland had potential a few yrs back Jack o brien has been on the panel the last few yrs and is a decent. player.

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by TerraceTalk »

BiffoInThurso wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:43 pm Thanks!

Have O Brien , Mcdermott and Poland been involved at senior before, would they be much of an addition or similar enough to whats been involved before?
I have a feeling McDermott may have been on league panels before, but could be mixing that up with u20 either. He’s always exciting to watch, low centre of gravity makes him a defenders nightmare. Don’t know how effective that would be at inter county level all the same.
Unsure about Nathan Poland. Jack O Brien definitely got a few run outs in the championship this year.

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by jimbob17 »

Most of these lads would have been involved in Declan Kellys U20 teams over last 5 years or so. Kelly would have had the 2024 U26's down to U22's at U20 level. That is a fairly good insight into who are the best lads that would be available to make up the bones of the senior panel when you also factor in the best 12-15 of the 27-33 year olds. Good to see Cathal Flynn is back involved as he was one of the best of that U20 winning team. Good also to see older lads like Nigel Dunne and Eoin Carroll have not been discarded as they still have something to offer in bringing the younger lads through.

Poland was a very good prospect when younger and there is no doubt that if he was from a Senior A club, may have got his chance before now. There are always lads like him operating below the top tier in club football that get left behind when they leave the underage ranks because of the poor standard of their club team, and I'd love to see more done to give them a better chance at closing the gap. A development intermediate or U24 squad like they do in other counties would help with this. It would mean any senior manager would then have a stronger pool to pick from.
jimbob

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by TownieInOz »

McDermott didn't have the best of years last year in the football but he would be Durrow's star forward with Michael Mooney and Alan Geoghegan gone to Oz/Canada ? and Kelly will know what he will get from him having had him at u-20. Poland has the talent albeit a bit raw, great power and speed so being in with the county set up should help him.

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by pigeon house biffo »

Any word on Kieran Dolans injury or how he’s getting on?

Was watching NUIG in league final earlier, is Cathal Donoghue not playing with them this year?

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by Lone Shark »

Cathal was listed at number 29 for the Ryan Cup final, didn't appear. If he is fit, that's a backward step after starting for the team for the last couple of seasons.
Kevin Egan. Signed out of respect for players and all involved with Offaly.

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by pigeon house biffo »

Lone Shark wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:52 pm Cathal was listed at number 29 for the Ryan Cup final, didn't appear. If he is fit, that's a backward step after starting for the team for the last couple of seasons.
Cheers Lone Shark! Would be disappointing alright for sure. He was one that i thought could add a good bit of physicality. Hopefully not lost to the cause.

Good article in the Offaly Indo this week, seen you mentioned Nathan Poland was part of the panel now. Any idea of any new faces or departures from the panel this year?

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Re: Offaly Senior Footballers 2024

Post by TerraceTalk »

TownieInOz wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2023 10:11 am McDermott didn't have the best of years last year in the football but he would be Durrow's star forward with Michael Mooney and Alan Geoghegan gone to Oz/Canada ? and Kelly will know what he will get from him having had him at u-20. Poland has the talent albeit a bit raw, great power and speed so being in with the county set up should help him.
From the one Durrow game I saw this year they were lacking a killer inside forward. McDermott does seem to be main man but I think they could do with another target man inside, he tends to drift out a bit looking for a ball and then has to run at lads a bit more and you lose the opportunity at the quick catch turn and shoot.
I didn’t realize Adam Geoghegan was gone, a footballer I always enjoyed watching even though he’d often have a field day against us. Durrow always had great inside forward options over the last decade, Paul Kinnarney and Stephen Wyer were clinical operators at intermediate level and had Durrow been playing senior football when they were in their prime they would have thrived. Tangent over :lol:

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