Offaly Senior Inter County Hurling 2012

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Enter 2012. A new year, a new management and a year of great potential for Offaly. A few things to cover.

Firstly; Coolderry’s much publicised and much deserved success. Asides from the honours won and what they mean to those players and that club, by far the best thing that can ever come from their journey is the development of a degree positivity among Offaly’s hurling fraternity. For what seems like an eternity now, our own supporters have consistently run down the quality of the players at our disposal and the standard of the club scene. This, allied to the national media’s almost universal ignorance and utter indifference to our county, has meant our hurling team operating under a pall of near total negativity and lack of expectation for the last number of years. A valid point can be made that this was partly due to the widely known deficiencies of the previous management. That notwithstanding, the dismissal of our team, our county with that imbecilic phrase ‘ah shur the hurlers aren’t there’ by so many of our own “supporters” for so long must end.

Lest there be confusion, let me be clear. There is a fine line between reasonable and constructive expectation and harmful delusion. Thus, I am not implying that all should start booking the rooms in Croke Park Jury’s for the first weekend in September. Nor should any ignore the significant and serious problems that exist with the structure of our underage system and the utter lack of not only success, but also competitiveness that we have experienced at these grades. These are deeply worrying issues for our county. However, these concerns should not be allowed to permeate illogically across all aspects of Offaly hurling like a cloud of negativity. Taken in isolation our current panel and the players thereon have great potential. It should thus be expected, even demanded, of those players that they be as close to Tipperary and Kilkenny as anybody else. Nothing should be feared of any of the remaining teams and victory should be anticipated against any and all of them. ‘Heroic’ defeats against these middle-ranking teams should no longer be treated as an acceptable way to conclude yet another summer in June. Jesus, we’ve had enough of them. If we can reach this level both as supporters and players, then may the journey continue from there.

As for the team itself, evolution not revolution should reign. Players that were given their debut under John McIntyre and that stagnated under Joe Dooley are now reaching their peak. Diarmuid Horans return is extremely significant. A hurler of great quality, he may be the difference. Coolderry, despite their club success, have no guaranteed starters on the county team. This should surprise none. The link between club and county success is non-existent; ones impact upon the other is negligible. Just ask Galway. Thus, talk of up to five, maybe six, Offaly starters hailing from Coolderry is nothing but a utterly ridiculous knee jerk reaction. Deserving of a place on the panel, never mind the team, are Eoin Ryan, Brian Carroll, Damien Murray and Cathal Parlon. The remainder from the county champions have either had numerous ultimately unsuccessful inter-county opportunities in the past or are, quite simply, not good enough/there are much better players in the county.

The balance of the team and specifically of the defence is one that will engender great debate, specifically the positioning of Diarmuid Horan, Rory Hannify and Dylan Hayden. At one stage or another all of these have played to greater or lesser extents in the Offaly defence. Robbing Peter to pay Paul; our midfield and attack has suffered because of this. Defenders among an injury free panel would include David Franks, Paul Cleay, Michael Verney, Stephen Egan, Brain Mulrooney, Stephen Wynne, Christopher McDonald, James Rigney, David Kenny, Derek 'Del' Morkan, Sean Coughlan, Eanna Murphy, Barry Harding and Brian Watkins. (Apologies if any names were unintentionally omitted). A formidable defence can be constructed from these alone, Del and and Kenny (surely deserving of a sustained run at CB?) being the guaranteed starters. However, few of these are capable of playing anywhere outside the back six. Thus, omitting brilliant players in their own right and leaving them on the bench to accommodate Horan, Hayden, or Hanniffy in defence while at the same time depriving the midfield/attack of Horan, Hayden or Hanniffy makes little sense. At most one of these three should be entertained in defence, the remaining two must be allowed ply their wares further up the pitch and provide badly needed quality assistance to Bergin and Dooley.

At midfield it’s a case of take your pick and the two will largely be determined by the approach the management take with the half back and half forward lines. In addition to the usuals, worth a chance here would be Tomas Carroll. With directed coaching, he has all the raw attributes necessary to make an impression on the inter-county stage. For the forwards; guaranteed are Shane Dooley, Joe Bergin and Derek Molloy. After his performance against Kevin Grogan of Kilcormac/Kiloughy lasy year, Colin Egan may be worth a trial in the troublesome full forward berth. The remaining places to be filled by Dylan Hayden, Rory Hanniffy, Diarmuid Horan, Brendan Murphy, Brian Carroll or Eoin Ryan. Whatever the final combination of the starting 15, it is clear that there will be a number of talented hurlers on the bench. Given the nature of the today’s game, this is of inestimable importance.

The general consensus thus far is that Baker has started well. After the last few years, these are welcome reports. We can but hope that this continues as the physical training tails off, the skills coaching commences and team selection begins. The new league, that some counties hypocritically, selfishly and short sightdly deride but is in fact much preferable to last year’s model, should be targeted and won. Infinitely preferable to win these games, particularly after last year’s league fiasco. Good acquittal here, confidence gained and Wexford on a sunny June evening won’t come quick enough.

So, that’s where we stand. Put simply, this panel has the potential to achieve greatness over the next couple of years. Precious time has been lost over the last few years. The opportunity has, however, not passed. The very best of luck to all those involved.

Let the journey begin.

[backofthenet]

Good post to kickstart this.

I think Offaly definately have been needing belief in the last few years...Offaly are definately not as bad as they have performed over the last decade, also as was well pointed out we are also probably not going to be carrying the Liam McCarthy into Offaly in the coming year. I think with a bit of ambition and belief a quarter final with a crack at a semi final is achievable this year. When you consider the level that dublin have competed at over the last few years it is entirely possible, i doubt there is many who would really argue that there is a large gap in hurling ability between the counties, the real gap is in the preparation, commitment and ambition of the counties. If we are expecting the county squad to compete at this level we have to equip them comparatively with other county teams, no half measures.

Now regarding the team I have to say I always look at the squad and find different decisions I would make which is natural enough, where I think I have the most problems is with some squad members rather than the first fifteen who really are probably not worthy of their place and I would believe there are better options available.

I think that positioning is not exactly key to offalys game. What is absolutely key is
1. The taking of scores must improve, we fail time and time again to hit enough scores and often have a high wide tally. This is unacceptable in intercounty hurling especially when this is something that can be so easily improved on.
2. The workrate of the forwards, again if you look at K/K, Tipp, Dublin in particular, they are top notch at not letting good ball be delivered to their forwards.
3. The all round fitness of the team is again something that can be improved. It is something we have talked about here for a number of seasons but it is still an issue.
4. We need every player, if offaly are to be in the best possible health, we need the best possible players, it should be a case of commitment and this should be demanded of the squad, donegal proved that a unity of purpose, sacrifice and a bucketload of hard work can get you some distance, it may not take you to the whole way but its half the battle.
5. Respect for the players from the supporters and a larger attendance at matches. This is something that sadly has happened aswell over the last few years, Im sure most on here have castigated one player or another, and although I think most is meant to improve the situation, the pure disdain that sometimes surfaces within the county can only lead to the players wondering what all those sacrifices are for. Offaly has always been known as a proud fighting county, some would say wed fight on our backs! the last thing you want is the players questioning what theyre fighting for.

My 5 point plan as enda would say!

I know I am a Coolderry man and this will come across as biased, but there are a number of players who have excelled themselves in the Coolderry jersey this year and I think sometimes you look for the most stylish hurler, when really the hard grafter can do the job just as well. I think Trevor Corcoran definately deserves a proper crack at the county, and by proper crack I mean starting a couple of league games to find his feet. I think Eoin Ryan & Kevin Connolly & Stephen Connolly are ones that could grace the county jersey in the future, Damien Murray is a completely different player since spending some time stateside and could be an option, I think Kevin Teehan could possibly be deserving of a chance at midfield, he may not be the most stylish hurler but he will give 100% any day he takes the field.

[happy harry]

what kind of second panel or junior team would we have if we had to/???/

[Bord na Mona man]

Fair play lads.
I spent so many recent years feeling that Offaly have been underachieving, that I've started to fear we were doomed to it for eternity.

Yes, the squad isn't deep, but the quality of core team is as good as any side in the chasing pack.
And genuinely, look at the Waterford, or the Galway, or the Cork teamsheet.
Go through them man-for-man and there is no way in God's earth we should be feeling in any way inadequate to these sides.
There are real quality hurlers in Offaly and the sum of all parts needs to be higher.

Take last year. The team lost 11 out of its 12 competitive games - only beating Wexford.
There were injury problems, but I also fear there was a slight lack of ambition in how games were approached.
Perhaps the management bet too many chips on just needing to beat Wexford for Division 1 status and fulfilling the rest of the fixtures. A survivalist mindset, rather than a winning one.

I'm not saying it was overtly or consciously done, but the mentality of the squad can be influenced by the tiniest of invisible signals. Greet too many defeats with 'ah shure' rather than 'what the fluck' and you blunt the blades.

And then when it came to grabbing Cork by the throat last year and shoving them over the cliff, did Offaly possess the sheer ruthlessness required?
Mentally did the team hate losing enough. Was there enough disrespect for tradition and reputation. Did the team feel they were entitled to beat Cork.
I know these questions can't be definitely answered, but they should at least be asked.

Perhaps we have been keeping ourselves down with the "poor little Offaly" mindset in recent times. It might have been conceived out of winking cute-hoordom, but it has evolved into an inferiority complex. In my opinion Offaly people spend too much time worshipping the likes of Kilkenny these days instead of harbouring dark desires to knock them off their perch.

Anyway, best of luck to Ollie Baker and his backroom team. 16 years ago he was part of a Clare group that showed no respect for their betters. Instead of bowing their heads and wringing their caps, they blew the old order out of it.
Offaly need to take that sort of destructive attitude into 2012. The team has enough ability to be hurling up a storm on Leinster final day in July.

[GreatDayForTheParish]

Fair play lads.
I spent so many recent years feeling that Offaly have been underachieving, that I've started to fear we were doomed to it for eternity.

Yes, the squad isn't deep, but the quality of core team is as good as any side in the chasing pack.
And genuinely, look at the Waterford, or the Galway, or the Cork teamsheet.
Go through them man-for-man and there is no way in God's earth we should be feeling in any way inadequate to these sides.
There are real quality hurlers in Offaly and the sum of all parts needs to be higher.

Take last year. The team lost 11 out of its 12 competitive games - only beating Wexford.
There were injury problems, but I also fear there was a slight lack of ambition in how games were approached.
Perhaps the management bet too many chips on just needing to beat Wexford for Division 1 status and fulfilling the rest of the fixtures. A survivalist mindset, rather than a winning one.

I'm not saying it was overtly or consciously done, but the mentality of the squad can be influenced by the tiniest of invisible signals. Greet too many defeats with 'ah shure' rather than 'what the fluck' and you blunt the blades.

And then when it came to grabbing Cork by the throat last year and shoving them over the cliff, did Offaly possess the sheer ruthlessness required?
Mentally did the team hate losing enough. Was there enough disrespect for tradition and reputation. Did the team feel they were entitled to beat Cork.
I know these questions can't be definitely answered, but they should at least be asked.

Perhaps we have been keeping ourselves down with the "poor little Offaly" mindset in recent times. It might have been conceived out of winking cute-hoordom, but it has evolved into an inferiority complex. In my opinion Offaly people spend too much time worshipping the likes of Kilkenny these days instead of harbouring dark desires to knock them off their perch.

Anyway, best of luck to Ollie Baker and his backroom team. 16 years ago he was part of a Clare group that showed no respect for their betters. Instead of bowing their heads and wringing their caps, they blew the old order out of it.
Offaly need to take that sort of destructive attitude into 2012. The team has enough ability to be hurling up a storm on Leinster final day in July.

This is the key thing - psychology. There is nothing remarkable about any of the chasing pack. Man for man they are average to good teams. Nothing more. The colour of the opponents jersey and their history has to be ignored and each opponent played on their real current merits and deficiencies.

Cork last year (and Galway in 2010) was a classic example of this. By any standards, and as they subsequently proved against Galway - Cork 2011 was not only an average Cork team but a very average inter-county team. Any who conducted even a mildly reasoned analysis of their players could see this. However most supporters, and it would appear the management, could not see beyond that red jersey and an away fixture. The pessimism was rampant and a hammering was expected. Put those exact same Cork players in a, say, Wexford jersey and suddenly its a different story. All the nonsense before hand regarding the O'Connor Park lock out - the storm of publicity, the 'poor us' act from the management in the fucking Cork Examiner. All a matter of days before the trip to that tip Pairc Ui Chaoimh. Hardly the appearance of a management that believed completely Cork could be defeated through the strength of our players alone. Granted we were decimated with injuries in what was a nightmare year on that front. Little excuse, however, for the deplorable atmosphere that existed within the county before that game.

It's this kind of delusional pessimism that has to stop. Positive realism must prevail.

[Kevin]

Screwed up the quoting so...

GDFTP - Positive realism must prevail.

BNMM - Perhaps we have been keeping ourselves down with the "poor little Offaly" mindset in recent times. It might have been conceived out of winking cute-hoordom, but it has evolved into an inferiority complex. In my opinion Offaly people spend too much time worshipping the likes of Kilkenny these days instead of harbouring dark desires to knock them off their perch.

GDFTP - The new league, that some counties hypocritically, selfishly and short sightdly deride but is in fact much preferable to last year’s model, should be targeted and won. Infinitely preferable to win these games, particularly after last year’s league fiasco. Good acquittal here, confidence gained and Wexford on a sunny June evening won’t come quick enough.

The above notes make sense and they are all in the same general theme. Time to pick the expectations out of the gutter and at least put them in a reasonable place. If I hear any more of this...'the opposition is mighty and we may not be ready for the challenge, but maybe we'll get the rub of the green and nip them by a point' (or anything equally ridiculous), I think I'll be sick.

Time to stand up and be counted.

Good luck to the team this year.

We know you can do it!

[Johnno81]

First team named for 2012.......

‎1. James Dempsey (Kinnity),
2. Michael Verney ( Birr), 3. Peter Healion (Kilcormac / Killoughey), 4. Stephen Wynne ( St Rynaghs),
5. Eanna Murphy ( Seir Kieran), 6. Rory Hanniffy ( Birr), 7. Diarmuid Horan ( St Rynaghs),
8. Joe Bergin ( Seir Kieran), 9. Shane Kelly (Tullamore),
10. Duane Dunne ( Killurin), 11. Colin Egan ( Belmont), 12. Brendan Murphy ( Ballyskenagh),
13. Shane Dooley (Tullamore), 14.Derek Molloy (Shamrocks), 15. Sean Ryan (Birr)

Subs - 16. Eoin Kelly (Lusmagh), 17. Barry Harding ( Birr), 18. Dermot Mooney(Seir Kieran),
19. Brian Mulrooney ( Seir Kieran), 20. Chris Mc Donald (Brosna Gaels), 21. Sean Coughlan ( Seir Kieran),
22. Mark Morkan (Shinrone), 23. Thomas Carroll ( Seir Kieran), 24. Derek Morkan (Shinrone),
25. Ger Healion (Kilcormac / Killoughey)

[Greenwhiteandgold]

Good team named. No doubt offaly have a stronger panel this year, hopefully no injuries come our way. Its good to see young dwayne dunne called in, he hurled excellent for killurin last year and it will be interesting to see how he gets on. Also good to see that they are looking at lads from smaller clubs something which joe dooley failed to do big time. Joe bergin midfield is an interesting choice, maby baker is planning on moving him out the field this year to get him more involved.

[townman]

thats a very strong side with so many missing with colleage and Coolderry in the club all ireland semil missing as well
good to see Diarmuid Horan back on the team i think he can make the number 7 jersey his own like he did in 2008.

good to see Duane Dunne getting a run i have seen him maybe once or twice hope it goes well for him, also Eanna Murphy
is picked again on the half back line i thought he was very good again Dublin in croker last year and is coming into his prime now.

when he see the players that are missing and look at offalys bench for sunday we have a good panel this year, the likes of Barry Harding,
Del Morkan on the sub's also Thomas Carroll he has the hurling to be a very good inter county hurler if he puts his head to it.

Sean Ryan another one who is back and will add pace to the forward line that full forward line looks like it could do damage if it click's
Rory Hanniffy back at number 6 where i think he does his best hurling from.

when you add in Paul Cleary and Dave Kenny and David Frank's, James Rigney into that back line its going to be fun picking the best 6 when it comes
to wexford in june in tullamore.

anyway head to kinnegad this sunday please god the very best of luck to Ollie and the lads and hope to get the year off with a win and a clash against
the Cat's sunday week in tullamore.

[manfromdelmonte]

Westmeath seem to have really culled their panel

either they have some good young hurlers coming through, or else the manager has decided to get rid of anyone not prepared to give 100%

[the Untouchable]

Just a quick question for people alot closer to the hurling scene in Offaly that I am, what do you think this Offaly team should achieve this year for us to have a successful year? When I look at it, alot of these lads have been hurling for Offaly for a while, they've had their days where they ran the so called big teams close...losing to Cork, Galway and Dublin narrowly in the last few years...so surely we're not miles away from the middle tier of hurling, if you accept that Kilkenny and Tipperary are probably on a level above every other county!!

I guess what I'm really getting to here is, are we actually any closer to Kilkenny or Tipperary than we were over the last 8 years? If we're not, then realistically what are we likely to achieve for Ollie Baker to be considered a successful appointment and for Offaly hurlers to have a great year?

[True Red]

straying off topic here but......
Does Diarmuid Horan still use that cultec hurley?

[jimbob17]

Just a quick question for people alot closer to the hurling scene in Offaly that I am, what do you think this Offaly team should achieve this year for us to have a successful year? When I look at it, alot of these lads have been hurling for Offaly for a while, they've had their days where they ran the so called big teams close...losing to Cork, Galway and Dublin narrowly in the last few years...so surely we're not miles away from the middle tier of hurling, if you accept that Kilkenny and Tipperary are probably on a level above every other county!!

I guess what I'm really getting to here is, are we actually any closer to Kilkenny or Tipperary than we were over the last 8 years? If we're not, then realistically what are we likely to achieve for Ollie Baker to be considered a successful appointment and for Offaly hurlers to have a great year?

I think really that we need to be realistic. i think that initially we need to be gettin out of div 2. while people are very positive about this, i think that limerick and clare for that matter are equally as good if not better than OY at this point. Therefore to get into the top 2 in the league will be success given that wexford are there aswell. Hopefully we can put the lesser teams in the division2 and move away from that level with more incisive and clinical play.

I think we should be aiming for an All Ireland Q final really. If that happens that will be success as its the top 6 who make it that far. If it doesnt happen, we might be successful if we put up good solid displays against the top teams and go down with a fight while beating teams we are expected to beat comprehensively. Leinster is as competitive as it ever was now with KK, OY Wexford being challenged by the Dubs Galway and Antrim. The westies and carlow have come on leaps and bounds recently and are probably now on a par with laoise. There is a good crop of big men, physically strong players there now but they need to be added to with some good 20 21 yr olds. There needs to be competition for places and i think that will be the case when the coolderry fellas come back in to the reckoning. would like to see big Joe at 14 with Molloy, Mahon and Egan in the half forward line. Eoin Ryan should be competing for a corner spot with Dooley coming under pressure for his position. Only this type of competition will push fellas on to move to new heights.

[Jack The Lad]

Dooley coming under pressure for his place at number 13 ? Surely that's a joke the best forward we have. Ryan's a very good prospect but with no intercounty experience I dont think he'll be taking Shane's place just yet. Really looking forward to this year I think we could make some real strides. I didn't see Brian Watkins named on the panel is he injured I wonder?

[jimbob17]

No didnt mean it that way, besides there was one corner that i didnt even fill in, fairly sure Dooley will start but the likes of Eoin Ryan and Thos Carroll need to push on and make him be looking over his shoulder. Only then will we be going any place. Look at the KK team, richie Hogan, TJ Reid, Fast Eddie, Fogarty etc regularly sitting on the bench. It puts a spurt under lads and keeps them from going through the motions in training and taking things for granted. Dont think Dooley was great last year from play to be honest. Bergin was by far OY best forward last year, followed closely by Molloy in my opinion. Dooley scored a lot from frees but was not as good last year as he was in 2010 when he sparkled against Galway. It is a healthy thing if fellas are under pressure for places, and if Horan is played in the half forward line or midfield as is possible, itll mean an experienced player from the front 8 wont get in, so three from Brendan Murphy, Hayden, Hannify, Bergin, Colin Egan, Mahon, Healion, Molloy, Dooley, Brian Carroll wont start. that is leaving Thos Carroll and Eoin Ryan out too and id expect them to compete for a starting place also, ditto Damien Murray, Kevin Connolly, Brady, Kelly and Dwayne Dunne if they are considered forward options.

So my point is that if fellas are all pushing for a spot as should be the case, experienced players like Dooley amongst others will be looking over their shoulder for a starting spot, which would be the case in any decent inter county team. Just looking at that list is encouraging and should help OY push up the pecking order this year if things are done right.

Just wondering if Pat Camon and Kelly from Banagher are part of the squad this year at all. And is there any sign of a 21 squad getting back training as most other counties have managements in place and starts made for county 21.